Water in the cockpit of CD Typhoon Weekender

Oswego John · Post by **Oswego John** » Apr 23rd, '08, 20:21

Robert,

Save yourself a couple of bucks and check the boats sole by the way us unsophisticated folks do. (read cheapskates)

Drop in at the Dollar Store and get yourself a cheap, rubber ball. Place the ball in the center of the sole and observe the action of the ball.

Disclaimer: This complicated process is definitely *NOT* endorsed by my mentor, mechanical guru and hero, Rube Goldberg.

Good luck,
O J
PS: As mentioned earlier, lay a straight edge across the coamings as close to the scuppers as possible. Measure the distance from the bottom of the board to the sole. On a calm day as possible, measure from the bottom of the straight edge to the water level outside of the boat. The resulting answer might give you something to work from.
O J

shavdog · Post by **shavdog** » Apr 24th, '08, 06:56

If your drain hoses have a loop in them, personally I would replace them and get a straighter shot out of the boat to improve dainage...to me the loop is a forced restriction in flow..I dont believe thats the original design..

Sea Hunt · Post by **Sea Hunt** » Apr 24th, '08, 07:38

Gary H:

I am "assuming" your scuppers/drain holes and thru hull locations are in the same location as mine. Is this "assumption" reasonable

My Ty is a 1977 (hull #1400)

Do you happen to have "mfg" and "parts number" for the radiator hoses you purchased

I am leaving shortly to visit S/V Tadpole and spend the day on her hopefully. If other suggestions do not appear to solve issue then I plan to reconfigure the hoses. I agree that having a 360 loop is counterproductive to good water flow from cockpit to Atlantic Ocean.

If there is a radiator hose that pretty closely fits (diameter, length, etc.) I would like to try that next.

Gary H · Post by **Gary H** » Apr 24th, '08, 07:54

Unfortunately, I do not. I took the old hoses into the local auto parts store and asked them to try and match them up for me. The parts man compared my originals to all of his preformed hoses and found one that would match.
I look forward to you solving this problem so we can hear about your first sail.
I would not worry too much about the boat sitting low in the stern. My does also and it causes no problems. It may even help keep my short shaft engine prop in the water if I have to use it.

Dean Abramson · Post by **Dean Abramson** » Apr 24th, '08, 09:04

Robert,

None of my boats have had loops in the cockpit drain hoses. My guess is that that is your whole problem.

My guess is that it was done that way to keep water from coming in the leeward drain while the boat is heeled.

The physics of this stuff always confuses me (remember, I am the Giant Sponge Guy), but I think that what you want is for the hoses to cross to the opposite sides. When the boat is at rest, both hoses drain. But when heeled, you will take on no additional water THRU THE DRAINS. Any spray, rain, etc. while underway will be retained while you are on that tack, and as long as the thru-hull on the windward side is higher than the cockpit drain. But once the boat is level for a time, (tack slowly?) it will empty out. This is just part of small boat sailing, unless you have no drains in the cockpit.

With the current loops, your cockpit water will never retreat below the level of the top of the loops while the boat is level. I don't think your hoses are clogged. Rain has just slowly filled your hoses, and because of the loops, which apparently are higher than the cockpit sole, it will not drain further. The water in the loop and the cockpit will always find the same level. IE: the cockpit will never drain lower than the top of the loop, once the hoses are full.

Can someone back me up on this? Rich, Melissa, Carl?

SpongeDean

Gary H · Post by **Gary H** » Apr 24th, '08, 10:25

How can the loops be above the cockpit sole when the hoses are completely below the cockpit sole? This is getting loopy.

Oswego John · Post by **Oswego John** » Apr 24th, '08, 10:28

Robert,

FWIW, none of my boats ever had loops in their cockpit drains and I can't remember ever having rain collect in the cockpits.

If removing the hose loops doesn't solve the problem and the rain water still collects, maybe you could consider using a boom tent when at mooring. This would divert rain over the sides.

I'm still working on how a loop in the drain hose could be higher than the level of the sole. Maybe if it extended into the cuddy.

You say that you see water in the scupper. I'm wondering if that isn't seawater seeking its own level. Put some extra weight on one side of the boat and watch to see if any water rises up fron that scupper back into the cockpit.

Good luck,
O J

Dean Abramson · Post by **Dean Abramson** » Apr 24th, '08, 10:47

Think cockpit locker. If the line loops up into the cockpit locker higher than the cockpit sole, there you are. In my boat, there is lots of room outside of the vertical walls of the cockpit footwell. I have not been on a Ty lately. But why can the hose not loop up as high as the bottom of the cockpit seats?

Am I missing something? For example, my bilge pump hose passes thru my locker, and at its highest point, it is much higher than the cockpit sole. I am envisioning that Robert's hoses leave the cockpit sole, loop up into the higher parts of the lockers, then back down into the thru-hull. Or, if there are no cockpit lockers, then just up into the space below the seats.

Like I say, am I missing something?

Dean

Neil Gordon · Post by **Neil Gordon** » Apr 24th, '08, 11:23

Good point, Dean. If the hoses loop up as high as the cockpit seats, the cockpit won't drain until the seats are below the water line (absent some siphon effect or other incentive for water to leave the boat).

Dean Abramson · Post by **Dean Abramson** » Apr 24th, '08, 11:41

Thanks, Neil.

It seems like what Robert has is basically an anti-siphon loop without the anti-siphon valve. Kinda worst of both worlds.

In an un-looped hose, the water level is always the same as sea level.

On Robert's boat, or similar, I think that the following is always true (proceeding from cockpit towards thru-hull): Before the loop, the water in the hose will always be the same level as in the cockpit. After the loop, the level in the hose will always be at sea level. And there will be (barring any siphoning) air in the top of the loop, as long as it is above both sea level and the level of water in the cockpit.

Dean

Oswego John · Post by **Oswego John** » Apr 24th, '08, 11:56

Hi Dean,

No senior level on your part, most likely on mine. Aha, the cockpit locker. Of course. What did that Archie guy say, Eureka?

I think it's best to get back to basics and return the hoses back to how they were designed to be.

BTW, I find that a senior moment now and then gives me a challenge. After a while, a person tends to get used to them (to a point)

Looking forward to a good season,
O J

Dean Abramson · Post by **Dean Abramson** » Apr 24th, '08, 13:29

I have edited my most recent post above. I did not have it exactly right. Now I think I do.

(I misspoke. I was under sniper fire at the time.) ;-)

Gary H · Post by **Gary H** » Apr 24th, '08, 13:50

I could be wrong, but I believe that on the Typhoon, the space below the sole does not connect to the space under the seat nor the locker.

Dean Abramson · Post by **Dean Abramson** » Apr 24th, '08, 14:02

Well, there could be a hole for a hose to pass through. But, true, I really cannot speak to the specifics of the Typhoon. (And I am certainly doing some surmising as it relates to Robert's particular boat.)

Lee Kaufman · Post by **Lee Kaufman** » Apr 24th, '08, 14:21

Well, how about that! I have had perennial problems with the scuppers on my CD 25. They are recessed enough that a plunger, even a small one, won't fit close enough to be of use. But a coke bottle. What an idea! I'll try that as soon as I get back to the boat.

I love this board.

The Cape Dory Board

Water in the cockpit of CD Typhoon Weekender

Do It The Po' Boy Way

Hoses

Loopy

Water In The Cockpit

Am I having a senior moment?

Am I having a senior moment?

Simple but confusing

Water Level

Retraction/Correction/Clarification...

Still loopy

Coke bottle