inflatable vs Solid dinghy

[Paul D.]

I am glad my brother came through. This series of shots should give a clear idea of the work involved in putting the thing together. I do admit that it is not hard to do off the boat at anchor in rough water.

As you can see, my brother has the yacht philosophy and no dinghy looks finer that that above. John's boats are a joy to behold and the thought behind every detail is deep. Mine however, has plastic hose for a rubrail and and an owner who, with a more work boat philosophy, sees the joy in dragging her up the beach - now, I don't do that with my canoe mind you! OK I gotta get back to work.

Paul

[Matt Cawthorne]

I was interested in the references above to how an inflatable tows well and how a hard dinghy can be a problem. While my Redcrest tows straight, it also tows like a sea anchor. Come to think of it it rows like a sea anchor as well. That should not stop you. I have, on occasion rowed it for 6-10 miles in calm water. The problem with inflatables is that if you are rowing into choppy waves progress comes to a halt really quickly. That said, I used my redcrest for 14 years (still have it) almost every time we went sailing. It is not too much of a hassle to fold up and stow, and it is really easy to get aboard. Turn it upside down, raise the nose, catch the oarlocks on the lifeline and pivot it up. Never any harm to the hull. I have a motor, but it rarely gets used. Do you know what a songbird sounds like in a motorized dinghy? RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

My hard dinghy tows very straight and with much less drag than an inflatable. I have towed it in 4 foot choppy seas and it remained mostly dry inside. It rows faster and with less effort, particularly into choppy conditions. It takes something like 1600 lb of stuff to sink it (tested that) and fits on the deck of a CD-36 The down side is that it does obscure vision and it is more difficult to launch. I use a halyard, but it is still a 2 person operation if you don't want to take a chance on scratching something. My feeling is that for a boat less than 30 feet, however, that the hard dinghy is a tow-only proposition unless the dinghy is very small.

Matt

[Michael Ellis]

I was glad to see your reference to using the epoxy with graphite powder as a means to clad the bottom of your dinghy. I build the Minto Sailing Dinghy and one of the problems with a pretty gelcoat finish is what Puget Sound rocks and barnacles want to do to it. Is the epoxy you use West System as well? If so, do you thin it for this application? Also, is the final surface rough enough to degrade sailing speed? Do you use the roll and tip method?

[Andy Denmark]

Wow, the arguments for either a hard or inflatable dinghy go on and on, not a lot different that the freewheeling vs. locked props, wheel vs. tiller steering, roller furling vs. hanked on headsails, ad infinitum. What is apparent is that there is not a single definitive solution that will satisfy everyone -- not a lot different than the political quandary we are facing in the upcoming (and ungodly long) presidential campaigning. Ooops, sorry -- not supposed to mention politics here!

I have either tried or used every dinghy option mentioned in the above discourse -- inflatable, hard, folding, nesting, kayak, canoe -- and each has its merits and shortcomings. I think the final choice depends largely on the use the dink will be put to and what the merits vs. deficits of each may be, realizing that there are compromises that have to be made and that there is no perfect dinghy to be had.

For my choice, at least the one I've committed to for the present, is a hard dinghy that fits on the foredeck of the CD-25 & 27, the 28 and 30 when the club jib boom is removed, and quite easily aboard the larger CD's. After deciding that a hard dink that would do this is not available on the commercial market, I decided to design and build my own but before I undertook the project I found a ready-made answer in the "For Sale" section of this board. Bruce Barber listed a small hard dink for sale with a picture showing that it fit on the foredeck of his CD-25-D without too much visual impairment, allowed "walk around" room on either side, was light weight (< 80 lbs), could be launched and retrieved single handed with the jib (or spare) halyard, and would carry two persons safely. To make a long story short, I bought this little craft as it was very close to the culmination of my thoughts without the hassle of my going through the design/building process.

Since a picture is worth a thousand words I have attached some here. According to Bruce, who is a naval architect and therefore a much more credible source than I, the dink is a reduction of a John Gardner design that appeared in National Fisherman many years ago. (If you are old enough to remember that NF once had an excellent section devoted to small craft then you are probably as old as I am -- ahem. Right, OJ?) It is stitch & glue built of 1/4" plywood and the lengthwise seat in lieu of athwartships seats makes fore-and-aft trim with different passenger loading easy to accomplish. I think it is appropriate to mention that this little dink is especially well-built with care and attention to detail.

The principle dimensions of this dink are 6'4" LOA, 3'10" beam, and enough freeboard (and buoyancy) that it supports my large bulk and that of a smaller passenger without much difficulty (in smooth water, anyway). It is small enough that there is walkaround room to either side when it's stowed on the foredeck, provides a place to sit when deploying or retrieving the anchor(s), allows the jib to tack over it w/o difficulty, and is easily launched and retrieved with the jib halyard by one person (the proper tackle being essential for this).

From a handling perspective the dink is somewhat of a challenge to row straight but it can be done with practice. It will definitely make one a better oarsman! It will handle a 2 h.p. engine with no difficulty (maybe a 4 h.p.) and I suspect it could be modified for a sailing rig. No, it won't plane when it's loaded! It tows like it isn't even there, unlike an inflatable "sea anchor" dinghy, and it can be deployed and ready to use before your can get the pump for an inflatable out of the cockpit locker. Carrying capacity is limited to two adults, max. It is a great dink for kids (grandchildren in my case). I intend to put a full cover (Stamoid -- ask a sailmaker) with a couple of bows to keep spray and rain out of it while being towed.

More comprehensive testing will be done as the season gets underway and more reports will follow.

FWIW

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[Paul D.]

Michael,

I use Raka epoxy as I feel it is just like West 105. Just mix up the epoxy and hardener well and then add about 10% of the 423 West System graphite powder by volume and mix well. I do not thin it.

http://www.westsystem.com/webpages/prod ... /index.htm

I roll it on with a foam roller. For touch ups a foam brush. Depending on whether you brush or roll, it dries to a hard matt black that is fairly smooth but not like gelcoat. When I used Maas epoxy once I got a really glossy black that was just weird and took forever to cure. Graphite powder is used in this way for racing dinghy bottoms that are dry sailed so it is quite fast but it is not antifouling. I just find it really, really scuff resistant and I like the look. It will add a pound or so depending on how big a bottom you are coating. If you are coating over an already varnished surface be sure to remove all the varnish to adhere it right to the epoxy hull.

I have seen one of our cedarstrip canoes come back with an obvious impact so hard the inside glass cracked but the graphite coating was unaffected and thus needed no repair. On my dinghy I just coated the bottom where it was getting scuffed. I do not need to touch it up yearly. If it was varnished I would definately be sanding and recoating twice a summer with its current use. So that is how I get away with having a varnished dinghy but still can drag it up our rocky beaches here!

Let me know if you have any more questions. I would sure like to see your sailing dinghy sometime.

Paul

[Michael Ellis]

Paul,
You can go to http://www.richpassage.com to see many pictures of Minto Sailing Dinghies. Some were built by Ed Hoppen, the original builder of the Thunderbird and original builder of the Minto, some by Ranger who built about 1100 over the span of 30 some years, and some Rich Passage Minto's built by me. You can also see this picture :)

[rwi4]

How bout this angle- I've been involved with the sea kayaking evolution for over 25yrs, plus I love to sail small boats, and have been nutting out ways to do both. There must be many of you who can relate, so here's what I've come up with, and would appreciate any input.

I own New Zealand's version of a Catalina 7 meter. Not a lot of room for a dinghy. I've made some 'U' shaped brackets that I use to carry a waveski or two on the outboard side of the boats stanchions. The waveski is 9' long and 2' wide, and when lashed to the lifelines interferes with nothing that I've subjected the boat to so far. Admittedly you need to get used to the little craft, but I can paddle it on my knees or sit on my bum, and feel very stable. The waveski can be launched and retrieved in seconds, and tow like nothing's there (as a matter of fact there was nothing there once when the tow line broke, and I didn't realise the waveski had disappeared), with it's plaining hull. It also adds a bit more privacy in the cockpit area, acts as a lee cloth or dodger, and deflects a lot of sea when well healed over.

I've just recently purchased a CD28, which I plan on exploring the PNW with, and am looking at buying a SOT (sit-on-top kayak) to do as I've done with the waveski. The SOT's have come along way. Some models you would only trust in a swimming pool, but others are quite sophisticated and well designed. So I'm thinking a 15' SOT strapped to the outside of the stanchions (don't know yet if it will interfere with the CD28's sailing) would be a good craft for exploring and moving well through rough conditions. I'd also bring a small inflatable (I'd prefer an RIB, but I think they're still too bulky) for the donkey work.

Both the SOT and inflatable can also be kept in the cabin, for Winter storage. Anyway I could go on and on, but probably shouldn't get too carried away.

Richard

[winthrop fisher]

when you get over 50 years old can you guys and gals still pick up that hard dingy, think about that.

thats all died weight.....winthrop

[Michael Ellis]

Obviously, not everyone can carry 110 pounds, but if the dinghy is 9' or shorter, usually the distance from the middle seat to the transom is short enough for one person to carry the dinghy like a canoe. Here is a pic of me bringing my old "beach boat" Minto up.

[Len]

This dinghy was built by Luke Marine ( Lineakin Bay , Maine). Beauty doesn''t require pro and con arguments.
(BTW it's not mine and I don't sell them.)

[Paul D.]

Regarding a hard dinghy's weight, our nesting dinghy is only 40lbs per half and my brother is well over fifty and he lifts his regularly on his own. We both have back issues as well (From before the dinghy use !) so we are quite conscious of how we going about the lifting.

So my answer to the previous question is YES. We have considered it and hope to continue sailing and dinghying for awhile.

All the best,
Paul

[Tom Keevil]

We have had good experience with our hard dinghy. We enjoy rowing, and it rows very easily. We have no interest in having any gasoline on board, and gasoline is essential with an inflatable. An outboard motor is one more system added to the boat that allows you to spend time maintaining it, troubleshooting it and repairing it when you could be doing something more fun. We also have a sailing rig for it, but it doesn't get much use. One characteristic of a good anchorage is shelter from the wind! The dinghy takes a beating on the rocky shores of the Pacific NW, but an inflatable would be shredded if we used it the same way.

It has a skeg at the stern, and tows straight and with little drag. We tow it around in protected waters, so it is all ready to go at a moment's notice. This is useful for rowing stern ties to shore, or rowing anchors out for kedging, when you want to move pretty quickly. Our dog jumps in and out without tearing claw holes in it. You can successfully row it into some nasty wind and chop if you have to.

When sailing offshore, or crossing areas like the Strait of Juan de Fuca in marginal weather, we lash it to the foredeck. There it does interfere with our view, but out there you really don't need to be always seeing what is right in front of you from one moment to the next. It also interferes with anchoring, so we have to launch it when entering an anchorage. However, we once had the engine die just after crossing the bar into Gray's Harbor, WA, and I was amazed at how quickly I could untie that dinghy, move it out of the way, and get that anchor out. Don't discount the useful effects of adrenaline!

Another important factor that has not been mentioned is that inflatable dinghies are just plain ugly. Why sail a beautiful boat towing an ugly dinghy?

[Len]

I tow my dinghy all the time! (Alas i have never crossed an ocean.) Sometimes water finds its way aboard. The dinghy is equipped with this marvelous devise called an Anderson Automatic Bailer. During bad weather I keep it open and the water drains out automatically. Even after swamping it doesn't take too long to drain the dinghy completely. Water does not come into the dinghy via an open drain. TRY THAT WITH AN INFLATABLE>

[David van den Burgh]

I tow my dinghy all the time! (Alas i have never crossed an ocean.) Sometimes water finds its way aboard. The dinghy is equipped with this marvelous devise called an Anderson Automatic Bailer. During bad weather I keep it open and the water drains out automatically. Even after swamping it doesn't take too long to drain the dinghy completely. Water does not come into the dinghy via an open drain. TRY THAT WITH AN INFLATABLE>

For the sake of accuracy, our inflatable has a self-bailing system that works fine. I'm sure others do as well.

It could just be that the right dinghy is a matter of priorities and compromise.

[Judith]

I tow my dinghy all the time!. . . During bad weather I keep it open and the water drains out automatically. Even after swamping it doesn't take too long to drain the dinghy completely. Water does not come into the dinghy via an open drain. TRY THAT WITH AN INFLATABLE>

Len, we have a hard dink, too, with self-bailer. . .Are you saying you can just leave it open, even when you're not towing, and water doesn't come in? Even when you're just at anchor??

We've been thinking the auto-/self-bailer only works when the dinghy is actively being towed. Then we always close it when we come to a stop. You're saying that's not necessary?

`Preciate the info.

Judith