I am considering the purchase of a Cape Dory 33 and am being discouraged by a broker saying it will not perform in the light air in Southern California. Any information will be appreciated.
Richard Cox
racox_3@excite.com
Cape Dory light air performance
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Catherine Monaghan
Re: Cape Dory light air performance
Richard,
It depends on how you define light air. Our CD32 will sail in any wind over 8 mph (7 kts), slowly, but she'll move. I defy you to find more than a few yachts sailing in only 7kts of wind, most will be driving. The question is, how fast will she sail in only 7 kts, and the answer is "not very".
You have to decide whether you want a high spirited racer, a seaworthy cruiser, or something in between. If you're not going to be racing around the buoys and you just want to spend a nice afternoon or weekend out on the water with your family, then the CD33 is a fine choice.
At some point I plan on sailing our CD32 to Bermuda, something she is well suited for. I wouldn't take a Beneteau to Bermuda, but a Beneteau would do quite nicely for daysails or outings on a bay, even offshore in good weather.
You have to make the decision based on your needs.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 Realizatin, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
(: I am considering the purchase of a Cape Dory 33 and am being discouraged by a broker saying it will not perform in the light air in Southern California. Any information will be appreciated.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
It depends on how you define light air. Our CD32 will sail in any wind over 8 mph (7 kts), slowly, but she'll move. I defy you to find more than a few yachts sailing in only 7kts of wind, most will be driving. The question is, how fast will she sail in only 7 kts, and the answer is "not very".
You have to decide whether you want a high spirited racer, a seaworthy cruiser, or something in between. If you're not going to be racing around the buoys and you just want to spend a nice afternoon or weekend out on the water with your family, then the CD33 is a fine choice.
At some point I plan on sailing our CD32 to Bermuda, something she is well suited for. I wouldn't take a Beneteau to Bermuda, but a Beneteau would do quite nicely for daysails or outings on a bay, even offshore in good weather.
You have to make the decision based on your needs.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 Realizatin, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
(: I am considering the purchase of a Cape Dory 33 and am being discouraged by a broker saying it will not perform in the light air in Southern California. Any information will be appreciated.
Richard Cox
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
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Matt Cawthorne
learn good sail trim.
Richard,
My friends are constantly amazed at how well my CD-36 does in light air. I have 17 year old sails and a fixed 3 bladed prop. When I first bought the boat Patricia and I used to literally sail circles around boats like Island packets and Tayana 37's. I have since decided that passing Island Packets is kind of like taking candy from a baby and not very sportsman-like. I was out this weekend close hauled in calm water with the wind instrument reading 4 knots of wind and the boat speed was reading 3.1 knots. It was great sailing. I just wish the fog were not so thick. It would have been nice to be able to see more than a couple of boat lengths. It is rare that one gets conditions calm enough to sail that fast in what amounts to just a couple of knots of true wind, but that is one of the beauties of late season sailing.
A few years ago I passed a friend who had a pearson 33 in light air. He went out and bought a feathering prop. The next year I passed him again in light air. He went out and bought a new set of sails. The lesson here is that if you do a good job with sail trim, I believe you will be happy with a CD-33. If you do a bad job of sail trim you will be unhappy with any boat. Don't get me wrong, if you want to race go buy a racing boat.
There are some boats (eg. Morgan OI) that require you to turn the engine on to tack in light air. You will not have that problem with a CD-33. Perhaps you could find a CD 33 owner on the west coast and go sailing with them. I would offer that you could come sailing with me, but winter is on my doorstep and the boat gets hauled next week. Could you perhaps get a chance to sail the boat that you are interested in buying? Buying a boat is a lot of money. Take your time. Be 100% confident that the boat you buy is right for you. Some people need racing boats, some need cruisers, some need hotels on the water. Make certain that the broker is responding to your wants and desires, and not the other way around.
Good luck.
matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
My friends are constantly amazed at how well my CD-36 does in light air. I have 17 year old sails and a fixed 3 bladed prop. When I first bought the boat Patricia and I used to literally sail circles around boats like Island packets and Tayana 37's. I have since decided that passing Island Packets is kind of like taking candy from a baby and not very sportsman-like. I was out this weekend close hauled in calm water with the wind instrument reading 4 knots of wind and the boat speed was reading 3.1 knots. It was great sailing. I just wish the fog were not so thick. It would have been nice to be able to see more than a couple of boat lengths. It is rare that one gets conditions calm enough to sail that fast in what amounts to just a couple of knots of true wind, but that is one of the beauties of late season sailing.
A few years ago I passed a friend who had a pearson 33 in light air. He went out and bought a feathering prop. The next year I passed him again in light air. He went out and bought a new set of sails. The lesson here is that if you do a good job with sail trim, I believe you will be happy with a CD-33. If you do a bad job of sail trim you will be unhappy with any boat. Don't get me wrong, if you want to race go buy a racing boat.
There are some boats (eg. Morgan OI) that require you to turn the engine on to tack in light air. You will not have that problem with a CD-33. Perhaps you could find a CD 33 owner on the west coast and go sailing with them. I would offer that you could come sailing with me, but winter is on my doorstep and the boat gets hauled next week. Could you perhaps get a chance to sail the boat that you are interested in buying? Buying a boat is a lot of money. Take your time. Be 100% confident that the boat you buy is right for you. Some people need racing boats, some need cruisers, some need hotels on the water. Make certain that the broker is responding to your wants and desires, and not the other way around.
Good luck.
matt
I am considering the purchase of a Cape Dory 33 and am being discouraged by a broker saying it will not perform in the light air in Southern California. Any information will be appreciated.
Richard Cox
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
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tom
Re: Cape Dory light air performance
Although our CD 28 sails well in heavy wind, it is light air sailing
that is the most satisfying. I used to do some handicap racing and seemed to do best when wind was heavy and light. I recall passing lighter "faster" rated boats in light air when the CD seemed to carry through lulls and keep enough aparent wind to keep her hissing along.
I don't race much anymore but love to sail in and out of anchorages in light airs confident that with the sails trimmed this boat seems to come alive. Ten years ago when I bought this boat I was nearly turned off by friends and brokers who can't seem to understand a heavy boat sailing well. Maybe it's all the hype that goes with the racing.
fish@mint.net
that is the most satisfying. I used to do some handicap racing and seemed to do best when wind was heavy and light. I recall passing lighter "faster" rated boats in light air when the CD seemed to carry through lulls and keep enough aparent wind to keep her hissing along.
I don't race much anymore but love to sail in and out of anchorages in light airs confident that with the sails trimmed this boat seems to come alive. Ten years ago when I bought this boat I was nearly turned off by friends and brokers who can't seem to understand a heavy boat sailing well. Maybe it's all the hype that goes with the racing.
fish@mint.net
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Bonnie Gilmore
Re: Cape Dory light air performance
Richard,
Ditto the comments thus far. We just sold our CD33 (Hull #4) last July and bought a Hans Christian. Now there's a boat that people say will not perform in light air! My point though, is that the full keeled Cape Dory performed very well (main and jib only - no spinnaker) in all kinds of wind on SF Bay. The right sails and good sail trim really do make a difference.
Good luck!
Bonnie Gilmore & Chuck Rust
Berkeley, CA
bgilmore@ci.santa-rosa.ca.us
Ditto the comments thus far. We just sold our CD33 (Hull #4) last July and bought a Hans Christian. Now there's a boat that people say will not perform in light air! My point though, is that the full keeled Cape Dory performed very well (main and jib only - no spinnaker) in all kinds of wind on SF Bay. The right sails and good sail trim really do make a difference.
Good luck!
Bonnie Gilmore & Chuck Rust
Berkeley, CA
I am considering the purchase of a Cape Dory 33 and am being discouraged by a broker saying it will not perform in the light air in Southern California. Any information will be appreciated.
Richard Cox
bgilmore@ci.santa-rosa.ca.us
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Bill Michne
Re: Cape Dory light air performance
Richard:
The broker is probably more interested in selling you a more expensive boat. I have owned two Cape Dory's. The first was a 31 which I sailed on Lake Ontario for five years. She performed well in both light and heavy air, showing well against larger boats in the club races, and regularly beating the same or smaller sized boats. We now have a CD 40 on Naragansett Bay in RI. She sails fine in light air (say, 4 knots true) with full sail. We are primarily weekend cruisers but like to get there in a hurry. We have not been disappointed regardless of the wind, light or heavy.
Bill Michne
wmichne@altavista.com
The broker is probably more interested in selling you a more expensive boat. I have owned two Cape Dory's. The first was a 31 which I sailed on Lake Ontario for five years. She performed well in both light and heavy air, showing well against larger boats in the club races, and regularly beating the same or smaller sized boats. We now have a CD 40 on Naragansett Bay in RI. She sails fine in light air (say, 4 knots true) with full sail. We are primarily weekend cruisers but like to get there in a hurry. We have not been disappointed regardless of the wind, light or heavy.
Bill Michne
wmichne@altavista.com
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Liz Robinson
Re: Cape Dory light air performance
DON'T BELIEVE THAT DEALER FOR ONE MINUTE!! We owned a CD 28 and now own a CD 33 (hull number 9) and sail on Lake Champlain, New York. We have a lot of light wind in our very short sailing season and I can guarantee you that with good sails and proper trim these CDs can really go in all wind conditions I've seen (0 to 40 knots). We recently returned from a cruise south in our boat and met up with other CD 33 owners who, I am sure, will say the same thing. We absolutely love our full-battened main and lazy jack system. This did improve our light air performance.
Cheers,
Liz Robinson
ertb@email.msn.com
Cheers,
Liz Robinson
ertb@email.msn.com
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Pete Zwiefelhofer
Re: Cape Dory light air performance
Bottom line - the broker is right. Cape Dory is a great boat!!! I own one. Browse this site and you'll find info on Cape Dory's many fine attributes. But light air performance is not one of them. Sure, with proper trim and technique you can enjoy a fine sail in light air. But you'll still be left in the wake of sailers employing equally fine technique but who purchased a boat more suited to their needs. Every boat is a trade-off. Pick the one that best meets your needs. This is a great site but postings tend to rave about Cape Dory's strengths and minimize (or rationalize away) Cape Dory's weaknesses. Perhaps to re-enforce their wisdom in choosing to purchase Cape Dory. Look at the california postings. You'll see lots from San Francisco (heavy air) and few from Southern California (light air). There is a reason.
peter@zwiefelhofer.com
peter@zwiefelhofer.com
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mike ritenour
Re: Cape Dory light air performance
Richard,
I've a CD33 and am now on a 2 year cruise with her.
LaVida has a 150% genoa, fully battened main, harken batt cars and just goes like stink.
I echo the other comment, learn sail trim and she goes really well, in fact the scuttlebutt on the boat before i bought her was that she did very well in light air. Since been proven over and over again.
I'd find a new broker who knows his boats.
Happy thanksgiving,
mike
michaelritenour@hotmail.com
I've a CD33 and am now on a 2 year cruise with her.
LaVida has a 150% genoa, fully battened main, harken batt cars and just goes like stink.
I echo the other comment, learn sail trim and she goes really well, in fact the scuttlebutt on the boat before i bought her was that she did very well in light air. Since been proven over and over again.
I'd find a new broker who knows his boats.
Happy thanksgiving,
mike
michaelritenour@hotmail.com
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John Nuttall
Compared to What???
Pete makes somegood points about So Cal conditions. Dennis Connor new that, that's why he campaigned a multi-hull in the America's Cup and ran away with the show. So if you want the ultimate in light air performance, get a 60 foot multimillion dollar catamaran!
But seriously, everything is relative. You've got to ask your broker to qualify his/her opinion. Yes, compared to a J30, J80 or any number of newer performamce boats, my CD31 is a light air dog. If all you want is a great light air performer, buy a race boat. Just remember race boats ARE NOT FUN. I know, been there - done that. (E-mail me if you want a detailed explaination.)
If you are looking for a good all around boat with creature comforts that will handle in ANY seaway, that will HOLD IT'S VALUE, and makes your heart go pit-a-pat when you look at her, Get a Cape Dory. If you don't care about those things, get a 15 yr old Hunter/Catalina 32/33, sail it for a few years, and throw it away when your done! I know, been there and done that too!!!
What ever you choose, get out and sail. You'll see what works and what doesn't. Next time you won't have to rely on a broker for an opinion. Your's will be grounded in experience.........yours!!!
Good Luck
John Nuttall
s/v Aimless
CD31 #28
Oriental, NC
nuttallj@msn.com
But seriously, everything is relative. You've got to ask your broker to qualify his/her opinion. Yes, compared to a J30, J80 or any number of newer performamce boats, my CD31 is a light air dog. If all you want is a great light air performer, buy a race boat. Just remember race boats ARE NOT FUN. I know, been there - done that. (E-mail me if you want a detailed explaination.)
If you are looking for a good all around boat with creature comforts that will handle in ANY seaway, that will HOLD IT'S VALUE, and makes your heart go pit-a-pat when you look at her, Get a Cape Dory. If you don't care about those things, get a 15 yr old Hunter/Catalina 32/33, sail it for a few years, and throw it away when your done! I know, been there and done that too!!!
What ever you choose, get out and sail. You'll see what works and what doesn't. Next time you won't have to rely on a broker for an opinion. Your's will be grounded in experience.........yours!!!
Good Luck
John Nuttall
s/v Aimless
CD31 #28
Oriental, NC
nuttallj@msn.com
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Richard G
Re: Cape Dory light air performance
Richard,
I sail a CD27 out of Marina del Rey. The boat is surprisingly enjoyable in light air. I purchased the boat in Ventura, CA and the day of my sea trial the wind was at most about 4 knots. The boat drifted along at about 2 - 2.5 knots. That was all I needed to know. If you love the boat in question, but are not sure about the performance in light air, make an offer and set the sea trial for a day when the forcast is for light air or in the early part of the day when it is light. See how you like it. I am always pleased with "JOHNNY G's" performance in light air..six to eight knots. Certainly pleased when it blows harder.
Before purchasing my CD 27 I looked at a lot of boats. Those that I loved all wound up being heavy displacement boats with character and quality that I could not find in the standard Catalina, Erckson, Hunter, etc. There is so much more to a boat than how fast she will go. If you are a racer then the CD is probably not the boat, but if you are looking for a boat to love the feel and look and heart of, a Cape Dory is a great choice and certainly not a pig in light air.
Aldajon@aol.com
I sail a CD27 out of Marina del Rey. The boat is surprisingly enjoyable in light air. I purchased the boat in Ventura, CA and the day of my sea trial the wind was at most about 4 knots. The boat drifted along at about 2 - 2.5 knots. That was all I needed to know. If you love the boat in question, but are not sure about the performance in light air, make an offer and set the sea trial for a day when the forcast is for light air or in the early part of the day when it is light. See how you like it. I am always pleased with "JOHNNY G's" performance in light air..six to eight knots. Certainly pleased when it blows harder.
Before purchasing my CD 27 I looked at a lot of boats. Those that I loved all wound up being heavy displacement boats with character and quality that I could not find in the standard Catalina, Erckson, Hunter, etc. There is so much more to a boat than how fast she will go. If you are a racer then the CD is probably not the boat, but if you are looking for a boat to love the feel and look and heart of, a Cape Dory is a great choice and certainly not a pig in light air.
Aldajon@aol.com