Engine woes on CD27

[cguthrie]

Those who were with us on the Maine cruise this summer may remember that Windhover blew its exhaust hose. We were kindly towed to Robinhood, where after several thousand dollars worth of work and a new elbow, it wouldn't start. Robinhood guessed that the engine might be shot. To be fair, I was angry with them about the guess-work and the delays, but, and I am eating crow now, they were likely right. A second mechanic has now confirmed that our Westerbeke 13 is probably dead. They don't have the tools to do a rebuild and with the expense and uncertainty of that process, they are suggesting a replacement. I've read several threads of discussion here and am seeing good things about the Beta 14. I called Ben, the dealer in Oregon and frequent poster, and he couldn't have been more helpful nor offered a fairer price for a new engine.

The trouble is I'm still looking at a formidable and unaffordable bill. I wondered if there was any wisdom out in CD land about the promise of a rebuild or any other options. I guess I could sail without an engine for a season, although the Maine coast seems like a bad place to try that, or I could just store her until a relative dies. The good news is that I have some inlaws who are getting up there in years.

[Sandy D.]

Hey Cliff I wouldn't give up on rebuilding. Give us some more details as to the death of your motor,and why a replacement is recommended?
-Sandy

[bill2]

Cliff

I agree with Sandy - let's hear a bit more about what's wrong with the engine.

FWIW - there's some that would say that if you can master the mechanics of sailing then you can read a book and rebuild a simple ( compared to jets or rocket ships I suppose ) sailboat engine. It may take you longer as you'll have to learn as you go but when the funds are not there its an option that begins to suggest further scrutiny.

Good Luck

BTW - the taking apart bit is easy - just need to label everything so it goes back where it came from.

[Tom in Cambria]

Also keep in mind that a large part of the cost of a rebuild is in taking the engine out and putting it back in. This is a fairly ugly job, but doesn't require any special knowledge nor any special tools. Once you wrestle it out of the boat and drive it to the machine shop in the back of your pick up, the actual rebuild isn't so bad cost wise. Even if you buy a new engine it still has to be installed in the boat, and the old one has to come out. You can avoid a lot of the cost by doing the grunt work yourself or hiring the neighbor kid who is looking to make a couple of bucks cheaper than the $80 an hour or more a skilled mechanic or boatyard will charge to do the simple stuff.

[Clay Stalker]

It may not be worth the expense of rebuilding if this is a raw-water cooled engine.....just another consideration....good luck.

[Warren S]

I've rebuilt several Harley, Triumph and other motorcycle engines and frankly, can't wait to get my hands on my Westie 13 (These engines are dirt simple by comparison). Only thing is, it runs like a swiss watch and always starts right up with around 1300 hours on the clock. The one other expense to keep in mind are any "special" tools that you will have to buy or borrow, or any machine shop work (re-sleeving, probably unnecessary though). The big reason for me to do it (besides my propensity for coal-black crud under my fingernails) is that when you are done, nothing will intimidate you about that engine again. You will not hesitate to dive right in and locate trouble sources even while at sea, where others might call for a tow right off (like this past summer when the 12v supply wire snapped off the starter solenoid from vibration).

I fully intend to overhaul it myself someday, so i will be interested in the best way to hoist the engine (after the 4x4-across-the-companionway-hatch step)

[Wayne Grenier]

Being one of the most frugal "cheapest" boat owners out there-I have a couple of ideas-1st what do we mean by "your motor is dead and needs to repaced"? did a connecting rod go through the block? did it seize? is the block cracked? I would pull the engine which is not difficult-with some planning and prep work you can have it out in 4 hrs-then bring it to a mechanic and have it torn down to see if its repairable or rebuildable-then go from there-one thing I know is diesels are designed to be rebuilt-over and over again and your block and lower end i.e. crank shaft and bearings maybe in good shape-its real hard to wear out a diesel auxillary in a sailboat-
Once you know if your motor can be rebuilt or not then you can make an intelligent decision-I can guarantee you can find a rebuilt, warranted replacement motor that will bolt right back in with the same mounts/wiring harness etc. Plus they will take your engine in trade as they in turn will rebuild it and resell it-do an internet search for rebuilt marine engines and see what you find-
If you do it youself you willl save thousands of dollars-but I'd start with asking the question "What do you mean my motor is dead"? I assume it was running fine before the exhaust elbow problem? If you always ran it full of oil and didn't overheat and seize it I can't see how you can kill it-If its raw wter cooled we hace a different situation-good luck! don't let anyone take your money unless you discuss with them exaxtly what they are going to do and how much its going to cost!

[Warren S]

I'm with Wayne on this one.

As for refurbs and exchange credit, Dr. Diesel here at http://www.foleyengines.com/ is extremely helpful. Lots of online resources on this site, too.

(end of commercial)

[Chris Reinke]

Cliff - I would have to agree with the previous posts. I pulled my Westerbeke M30 2 seasons ago and had it rebuilt for a fraction of what a repower would have cost. I also upgraded many components at that time and was able to keep the cost about 50% of a repower by doing the removal and re-installation myself. It was fairly simple and the guys doing the rebuild from Hansen Marine in MA were very helpful. I drove the engine to hansen and they did the rebuild over the winter. The only time I had the mechanic involved was to do the final alignment once I had it back in the boat. If your willing to get dirty, and the block/tranny are worth re-using....consider pulling and installing yourself. It is not as difficult as you might think.

[Carter Brey]

The W13 is fresh water cooled and parts (major and minor) are easily available from Marine Diesel Direct. It's a good, simple engine, absolutely worth repairing or rebuilding.

Wayne is right to ask, "What do you mean by 'dead?'"

Best regards,

Carter Brey
Sabre 28 Mk II #532 "Delphine"
City Island, NY

[Wayne Grenier]

soak the motor mount bolts in oil-cut the prop shaft with a sawzall-disconnect the wiring harness and the fuel line and the water in and exhaust hose-get a come-along and use a 4x4 or 2 2x4's across the companionway and with one person on the comealong and another in the rear of the engine compartment you can lift it right out into the cabin-my volvo is a 2 cylinder 24 horsepower cast iron monster-it probably weighs 400-500 lbs with the gearbox and I've done it on several occasion-plan on getting your gearbox replaced or rebuilt as well-and upgrading your shaft-cutlass bearing and stuffing box (to dripless)? think about it-you have nothing to lose!
Most boatyards do not want to get into a rebuild-they are usually the local dealers for one make of engine or another and they will always try to push you to a new motor-
Westerbeke is an American motor and if I am correct their national headquarters are in Avon Mass-just south of Boston-they may be able to point you in the right direction although they probably won't deal with you direct-they may refer you to a local dealer-rebuilt engines are tested on a dynamometer and warranted and you can get a new wiring harness-a heat exchanger (a good idea) and instrument panel as well-done right you will be good for another 20 years-ps consider replacing your fuel tanks as well as they were installed prior to the engine and come out easily once the motor is removed-

[cguthrie]

You folks rock -- almost convincing me that I can do this. Frankly it still feels completely overwhelming.

All I know about the fact that it is "dead" is that my mechanic said that the compression is around 280 when it is rated at 450. I don't think a rod went haywire. My guess is that it got wet when the exhaust hose broke and something twisted and warped. It had been working well all season after a new starting motor was installed.

Forgive my ignorance about all of this, but I think this is raw water cooled -- at least I know that sea water draws up from a seacock through the hull -- isn't that what is meant by the term?

The promise of not being daunted by the engine is attractive. I've actually thought of myself as rather handy -- learning how to do most things on the boat myself. I think the next step is to get absolute clarity from my mechanic what he knows already and then go from there.

[cguthrie]

Several of you have drawn a line between fresh and raw water cooled engines. As with my last post, I may not really understand the difference. Nor do I understand why several of you are saying that raw water is a different story.
Thanks again.

[Al Levesque]

Fresh water cooled engines use sea water through a heat exchanger to cool the fresh water. This is instead of the radiator in automobiles. Therefore, both fresh water cooled and sea water cooled engines draw sea water. In the latter engines, the sea water goes through the engine proper.

[Al Levesque]

The sea water through the warm engine causes much rusting and scaling inside the engine over time, reducing the cooling flow. On the other hand, heat exchangers are made of different materials and can last longer. They are also easier to clean or replace.