Potential CD 28 owner seeks 'informed opinions'.....

[yamiracer]

Hi all,

I've been combing through the archives, and believe I've learned a great deal. This seems like a really nice community. Anyway, here's my dilema. While I have some sailing experience, I'd really classify myself as something of an advanced novice. I've been sailing with my friend on his Coronado 30 in the LIS for the past 2 years. Numerous multi-day trips out to shelter Island as well as many over-nighters to the CT and LI coast. I also own a Venture 222 that I've sailed all over Lake Champlain. I mention this because other than these 2 boats (and a cal 24 that I took some lessons on 2 years ago), I have have no other 1st hand sailboat points of reference. From these 2 boats I have learned that anything over 15 knots is a lot of wind, and based on my experiences with my Coronado-30-owning-friend, I think I like sailing with a smaller crew, if you catch my drift. So, I went lookng for a boat big enough for my wife and me to spend a week or so on (btw, we've spent up to 5 days living aboard my V222), small enough for me to _enjoy_ sailing alone, and stable enough for me to sail in the LIS in November w/o scaring myself to death (as I've done in my friend's Coronado and my V222). this lead me to 28' boats, and the contenders are Pearson 28, Sabre 28, Bristol 27 (or possible a Bristol 30), Sea Sprite 28, and, you guessed it, the Cape Dory 28.

first, why would I choose a CD28 over the other boats mentioned above? I went on a test sail in a Pearson 28, and I couldn't get over how stiff and fast it was. Every sailer I have spoken with says I'd have to be out of my mind to get the CD28. But then there's the part of me that remembers beating back to City Island from Port Jeff last november in 20+ knots and 4-6 foot waves. Not fun. No, not fun at all. However, while I do want stability and a nice motion, an overly wet boat that's a slug in LIS summertime conditions isn't for me, either. Right now, the Pearson 28 and the Sabre 28 are 'winning'. Please help me decide.


second, I have located an early style CD28, i.e. plastic ports, shorter bowsprit, no bridgedeck, MD7B engine, etc. the boat is in (apparently) very good condition (current owner is a retired mechanical engineer who has had the boat for almost 30 years) and seems to have taken good care of the boat. we came to a price around $9.5k, which is about the same as the other boats mentioned. btw, is the horn cleat based mainsheet a drag to use? The Crosby rig itself doesn't bother me at all, as I can flatten the main with the vang, but sheeting the main with a horn cleet is new to me. seems ponderous.

Are there any reasons (other than cosmetics) to avoid the earlier CD28's? the plastic portlights still look new after 30 years and the topsides gelcoat is almost perfect. A recent survey said the engne started and ran well (surveyor ran the engine for 45 minutes).

sorry for the long post. brevity isn't my strong suit,

best

richard

646-354-3179
yamiracer@yahoo.com
richard.e.whitehead@gmail.com

p.s.

I would love to be able to actually talk to a real live CD28 owner, so if any of you feel like chatting, I'd be most appreciative.

[GeorgeV]

You say...

"Every sailer I have spoken with says I'd have to be out of my mind to get the CD28."

I would say you haven't spoken to the right sailors, I have been a sailor for over 40 years and I loved my CD28 it was a very forgiving boat and quite easy to single hand.

I owned hull #28 with the plastic ports and had no problems with them, but I also really like the later models with the bronze ports and fold up tables. A well cared for CD28 will command a premium price in todays boat market, but you would expect to pay more for a quality boat.

I particularly love the exterior teak and the boats lines, I always thought that she was the prettiest boat in the harbor.

The combination of the Alberg design and the Cape Dory craftsmanship make the CD28 a wonderful little yacht that will continue to give its owners many years of pleasure.

Boats are a very personal thing, not only do they have to get you from point A to point B in a safe and comfortably manner but you should beable to go home with that special feeling in your soul that only a beautiful woman can give you.

Good luck on your quest, but I am afraid the you will be hard pressed to find someone on this board that will have anything bad to say about a CD28.

[SPIBob]

The following web site is great for side-by-side sailboat comparison:

http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html

You can select any two boats and it will produce a chart comparing them on a number of standard measurements. Two of those that are closely related to performance/speed are Displacement to LWL and Sail Area to Displacement. All other things being equal, lower numbers on the first and higher numbers on the second are generally indicative of a faster boat. If you're thinking about beating into 20+ knot winds with 4-6 ft waves then Motion Comfort is critical, with higher numbers indicating a more sea-kindly, safer ride.

Of the choices you list, I would say the Pearson will give the best performance while the Cape Dory will be the best for an all-weather, off-shore boat.

And though they are not known for blazing speed, CD's are definitely not slugs; they sail better than most give them credit for.

Good Luck, Bob

[Stan W.]

Without addressing aesthetics, here are my opinions:

Bristol 27. Small, outdated design, cheap build quality and outboard or gas powered. Not in the same league as any of the other boats you mentioned. Would not even consider if I was you.

Bristol 30. Larger, more modern but still cheap build quality and gas powered. Trust me, you do not want a gas inboard.

Pearson 28. Designed from the ground up as a club racer and therefore will outpoint and outrun any other boat on your list until conditions get nasty. Mediocre build quality. A reasonable choice if you sail mostly in moderate winds and use the boat mostly for club-racing, daysails and weekend overnights.

Sabre 28. Good build quality but can be pricey. Can outpoint and out-accelerate a CD 28 to some extent but, in my opinion, is not significantly faster. Another reasonable choice for moderate winds, daysailing and harbor-hop style cruising.

Seasprite 28. Very similar to the CD 28 but smaller and slower. Really more comparable to a CD 27. Good build quality, but tends to be pricey. Still more of a daysailer/harbor-hopper.

Cape Dory 28. The only true pocket cruiser on your list. If you see yourself making overnight passages or even sailing more than 8 hours in a day, this is the boat you want. Not hard to single-hand. Can handle the conditions you describe with realtive ease (but you will need a dodger to stay dry). Not as slow in light wind as you might think (slow to accelerate but once up to speed the extra weight translates to momentum and is actually a plus) and downright fast for its size once the wind picks up. O.K. build quality to start progressing to good and even very good over time. $9.5K for an older model is a good deal but personally I'd spend more for a newer one. You're right about the mainsheet rig being a piece of junk but it's easily upgraded to a proper traveller.

[Wayne Grenier]

I own one of the oldest (if not the oldest) cd 28's out there-hull # 13 from 1974- #1-if you went out on a windy, blowy day with just the working jib and a reefed mainsail you would be very impressed-so get a genoa and cruising spinnaker for light air-
#2-I would never even consider selling my boat for $9.5K -if the boat you are looking at has recent sails and rigging and a strong motor you are looking at a potential bargain-but you may find the wiring and fuel tanks need replacing-of course since the owner sounds like a "hands on guy" maybe he has addressed these issues-#3-its the absolute ideal boat to single hand-in any kind of weather-
the saber 28 is a close 2nd but if you compare them out of the water the cape dory is much more impressive-

[Dixon Hemphill]

The others who have responded earlier have said it all. I really have nothing to add except to say if you buy the CD28 you will be one satisfied sailor. It's a great boat and will give you years of good safe sailing

I happen to own a newer boat (hull 144) with bronze ports, a roller furling 150 genoa and a 2GM20F Yanmar but if what you said about the condition of the boat and its engine is true, I strongly suggest you "go for it".

[Carter Brey]

Hi, there--

Don't overlook the Tartan 28, a very beautiful Sparkman & Stephens design from the 1980s.

Good luck with your decision,

Carter Brey
Carried in safety and comfort all over Long Island Sound in all conditions and from NYC to Block Island, including some 15-hour singlehanded passages, by
Sabre 28 Mk II #532 "Delphine"
City Island, NY

[Steve Kuhar]

Richard,

First of all I would like to congratulate you on keeping a Venture 222 afloat for all these years, I am amazed. If John Vigor were to write a sequel to his book titled "20 Small Boats to Never Go Anywhere In" I am pretty sure the V222 would be have to be included.

While I am heavily biased toward the Cape Dory 28, I am sure that any of the boats you are considering will be such a quantum leap from your current boat that you will become a deliriously happy sailor.

Steve Kuhar

[Ed Haley]

I owned a CD28 for 8 years and I sailed in all conditions. She was a class act. I admired her romp in the high seas and her strong build when things got rough. But what I really liked was that I knew she was the best looking girl out there, at least for me.

Maybe you need to look up Fred, who sails FeNix. He's sailing around the world right now in a CD28 and has reported on this board many of the strengths and weaknesses of his boat. You won't be able to do this as well in any other boat on your list.

And like someone said earlier, you get to go back to port with a beautiful lady

[Stan W.]

Don't overlook the Tartan 28, a very beautiful Sparkman & Stephens design from the 1980s.

One of these raced in the 2007 BHIR. Started 9 minutes behind the fastest CD 28. Finished at least 30 (and probably closer to 45) minutes behind the fastest CD 28.

I'm just sayin ... .

[yamiracer]

Richard,

First of all I would like to congratulate you on keeping a Venture 222 afloat for all these years, I am amazed. If John Vigor were to write a sequel to his book titled "20 Small Boats to Never Go Anywhere In" I am pretty sure the V222 would be have to be included.

While I am heavily biased toward the Cape Dory 28, I am sure that any of the boats you are considering will be such a quantum leap from your current boat that you will become a deliriously happy sailor.

Steve Kuhar

gee, steve, thanx for the kind words. i'm sure your opinion about V222's comes from 1st hand experience. no? actually, the V222 goes about her business quite well, condsidering that she's a 22', 1800#, flat-bottomed, mast-head, dinghy. i've seen over 10 mph (on the gps) on a broad reach, and can tack through < 90 degrees. i've put this boat through hell, and haven't hurt her (or myself) a bit. she's actually surprisingly tough and forgiving. i've been out on lake champlain in 15-20 knot winds _many_ times with no worries other than some serious pounding when the chop builds. you just need to reef deep and run a small, flat cut working jib. you should try it some time. it'll do ya good.

[yamiracer]

hi all,

thanx to all of you who took the time to share your experiences/opinions with me regarding possible 28 footers (especially the CD28). please keep the responses coming. again, i am especially interested in specific anecdotes or comparisons with other boats you have sailed. finally, the early/late CD28 question still burns. are there any differences other than bronze ports, a longer bowsprit, and a bridge deck? are the later boats made better? to be honest, i found the construction practices on the CD28 i'm considering to be middle-of-the-road at best. not neat tabbing, hull/deck secured by sheet metal screws (not bolted), somewhat flimsy companionway sliding hatch, downright cheezy interior construction techniques, etc. on the plus side, i find the layout to be nearly perfect. other than wishing for a smaller cockpit, there isn't much i'd want to change, layout wise. the bridgedeck on later boats is really appealing to me for this reason and as a place to sit. truth be told, i started out looking for a pearson triton when i heard about these boats. to my uninformed eye, the CD28 seemed like an improved triton..

finally, i'd really like to talk to some one with comparative experience with CD28's.

keep the opinions coming,

richard
646-354-3179

[Clay Stalker]

I am in agreement with most of how Stan W. describes the various boats in question. However, I would have to disagree on one point....the Tartan 28 vs. CD28. Any sailor of a Tartan 28 that loses a race to a CD28 is a poor sailor indeed...or has very bad luck. Under most conditions, a T-28 should run away from a CD28. The T-28 has 1,600 lbs. less displacement, 1.5 feet more waterline, and with a fin keel vs. a full keel, much less wetted surface. Of course, as we all know, races are usually won by sailors and not by boats. But with equal sailors on both of these boats in the same air, highly unlikely a CD28 could beat a Tartan 28.

Having owned both CD27s and Sea Sprite 28s, you are correct that the SS28 is more like a CD27 than a CD28, except in one area, interior room. And while the SS28 has only the 20' waterline of the CD27, it has much longer overhangs that increase the waterline significantly when heeled. In severe weather, the CD28s 9,000 lbs. of displacement will provide a more seakindly and secure ride, and would be the better choice for a longer distance cruiser. However, the SS28s 7,600 lbs displacement makes her a more lively and responsive sailor, especially in lighter air.

[Clay Stalker]

Regarding 28 footers, it's very hard to go wrong with a CD28 (or a Sea Sprite 28, for that matter). These are both well-constructed, pretty, good sailing boats that can be bought for between 15-28K generally. Construction generally improved with the later years, and the best ones sell for the highest prices and go very quickly. CD28s are far more plentiful than Sea Sprites as many more were constructed.

Sabre 28s, Tartan 28s, Pearson 28s, and Cal 28s are also excellent boats, with the Sabres and Tartan being the best constructed, designed, and most expensive. These are more of the racer-cruiser type, thought the Sabre is probably the best dual purpose boat of the group, a true classic that also sails well.

Next up the scale are the Shannon 28s and Morris Linda 28s. These are very similar in specs, beautifully constructed, and sail very well. These are boats you can cross oceans in with no modifications necessary....the Shannon being a bit better for this. Good Shannon 28s are 50-65K and Morris Lindas are 75-110K generally. However, if daysailing, weekending, and coastal cruising are you plans, these boats are overkill. But they really are beautiful.

And lastly, the 28 footer I have lusted after for years, the Bristol Channel Cutter. Probably the best built, most rugged, and arguably most beautiful 28 foot boat ever built....somewhat hard to find, very expensive (150-300K) and no longer built by the Sam Morse Company. The molds are now in the hands of another renowned northwest coast builder, so we can still dream on. This is the boat I would love to sail the world on.

[bill2]

FWIW

In the 2007 BHIR the stiff winds and course layout favored CD's in general ( IMHO and maybe a few others that attended ) such that the published waterlines didn't come into play ( except maybe one down wind leg ). Of course the the fastest cd28 was captained by a younger guy and for at least half the crew it was their first "race". Maybe the Tartan 28 had even less experience ? Some stats are

............................LWL.........Beam........PHRF
Pearson Triton........20'6"........8'3"........252-272
CD28.....................22'2"........8'10"........219
Tartan 28..............23'3".........9'10".......180
Tartan 30..............24'3".........10'...........170

So on paper the tartan 28/30 should be quicker - but as yamiracer will tell you ( he's probably read up on those triton's he's been interested in ) - a triton will show her heels to "faster" boats ( maybe that narrow beam becomes a factor - heeling and wetted surface area ? ). Guess the winds/currents ( and captain ) will tell the tale.

yamiracer - If you thought cd28's were only average build than you will be sorely disappointed in the quality of tritons - especially the early years ( I owned #115 or was it #135 - memory fades as the decades pass . I do recall single lower shrouds ( changed around #150 I think ), corroding fuel tanks ( think explosive gas ) , external ballast ( before #390 ? ), deck stepped mast support ( oak ) failing ( and cabin sole ) , fiberglass thruhulls and the usual delamination issues. Not to discourage you from a triton as they are good boats - no more and no less problems than others of the era ( some 40-50 yrs ago ). Many have crossed oceans without problems. I certainly enjoyed and appreciated mine but would advise a thorough survey before buying any used boat. I would heartily recommend them - but buy it as a project boat or an updated classic ( which compares well with anything afloat of similar specs ) and let the surveyor point out the differences.

As the newish owner of a cd28 #228 I'm impressed with the fit and finish over the triton while retaining the triton bluewater capabilities. Definitely one that will provide many years of great sailing.

Just my own $.02

Good Luck