Gulf stream

[marv brinn]

Getting ready to leave for trip to Charleston
the gulf stream is a force to be delt with.Upon searching I have found a bunch of marterial that is overwhelming and does not show the STREAM .It shows color representations of the water temp.
Since we are leaving within a week I'd like to have a source for Gulf Stream data..It seems what is available is only temp values.
Counter clock wise whirls are cold whirls and warm are clockwise.??

[Russell]

marv, where is your starting point when heading to charleston? This is an important factor, will you be with or against the stream?

Northbound, jumping into the stream is a nice speed bonus, southbound you want to avoid it of course. You of course want to avoid the stream with an opposing wind (anything with any north in it, but this depends on your location). Accurate data in exact current location of the stream is difficult. If doing a coastal cruise that may bring you close to the stream, well, you will know it when your in it. Water color changes very visibly, and if any of your tranducers read water temp, then thats a sure fire giveaway.

Any north bound coastal trip that involves gulf stream travel, its a safe bet to ride the stream, but keep to its western edge so when things get hairy its not an awful trip out. Southbound you want to stay between the coast and the stream when possible, you may even find favourable counter currents. Also, southbound there are certainly times when going "inside" makes sense, in spots where the stream hugs the coast.

My main point is, more so then any electronic data you can download, your going to know when your in the gulfstream from your senses and that will dictate your navigation more then a satalite image. The most important thing is to know when your in the stream (you will know) and keep up to date with weather and thus knowing when to get the hell out of dodge.

When I was southbound I actually hugged the stream as close as possible, in late fall freezing my ass off the warm air closer to the stream was a godsend while still avoiding the current.

[marv brinn]

Huh
how do you know you are in it?
it seems if you are travelling south you know you are in it because your speed over ground is 0 and over water is 8kts.
If you creep into the shore you run the risk of running aground especially at the outer banks.
we leave on the 7th from nyc
Can we talk? 864-561-8898 or give me your no.

[miguel mascaros]

Hi Marv.....
I am not an expert on this subject....But.....
On the first week of september with family we did a fishing trip out of St Augustine that took us about 40nm offshore where the water color noticeably changed from a clear green to a deep blue ...
According to the captain we where in the Gulf Stream....
BTW my Kids freezers are packed with fish....
That's my 2cents

[barfwinkle]

Just in case you didnt find it in your search here is a link to Jennifer Clark's Gulfstream analysis page ($$$$$) and to Herb's Southbound II if you have SSB capabilities (free and in my experience dead on the money).

<a target="_blank" href="http://users.erols.com/gulfstrm/">Jennifer Clark</a>

<a target="_blank" href="http://www3.sympatico.ca/hehilgen/vax498.htm">Herb's South Bound II</a>

Fair Winds and bon voyage

[Russell]

Just in case you didnt find it in your search here is a link to Jennifer Clark's Gulfstream analysis page ($$$$$) and to Herb's Southbound II if you have SSB capabilities (free and in my experience dead on the money).

<a target="_blank" href="http://users.erols.com/gulfstrm/">Jennifer Clark</a>

<a target="_blank" href="http://www3.sympatico.ca/hehilgen/vax498.htm">Herb's South Bound II</a>

Fair Winds and bon voyage

I certainly recommend listening to Herb as well, even if you dont have an SSB a good investment for any voyage involving a fair amount of offshore work is to get a Yachtboy SSB receiver. Receivers dont need any of the hard to install gound planes or anything, you can just attach the antenna to a chainplate from the inside with an alligator clip and you will be receiving SSB with little effort and far less expense then a full SSB rig.

[The Patriot]

Getting ready to leave for trip to Charleston
the gulf stream is a force to be delt with ... [my search] ... shows color representations of the water temp ... I'd like to have a source for Gulf Stream data ... It seems what is available is only temp values ...

You are correct is stating that there's a large amount of information available on the Gulf Stream. The information generally falls into two categories. The first is "technical" information such as general flow patterns, location of axis, direction of flow, speed of current, etc. Also in this category are the nature and structure of meanders, eddys, etc., and physical characteristics one usually encounters, such as temperature, water color, plant and animal life in and out of the stream, etc.

In the second category is information about current (i.e., "real time") conditions, such as the West Wall observations, location and size of warm and cold eddys, temperature details and patterns, etc. The mariner needs to know both types of information, but in general it is necessary to understand well the first category of information in order to be able to use the information in the second category - which is what counts during the passage.

For general knowledge there is no better primer available than the publication by Ocean Navigator called "The Gulf Stream Companion." This small booklet is a compilation of articles from the magazine. My copy cost about $12 way back when, and I am almost sure this book is still available on the ON web site.

For real time data, the site "Jennifer Clark's Gulf Stream," mentioned by another writer to this thread, is spot on. However it's now a subscription service and requires specialized communications gear or ready internet access. Herb is outstanding, but of course an SSB communications rig is required to work with him.

The cheap route (always of interest to sailboat folks) is the NWS or NOAA weather and Gulf Stream forecasts, available on short wave SSB. You don't need a transmitter, just a good SW radio with SSB capability, and even an 8' whip will usually suffice for good reception. This forecast gives the West Wall coordinates and the Lat/Lon and diameter of the cold eddys (east and south of the stream) and the warm eddys (north and west of the stream). I have used this system quite a few times with good results.

If you don't mind, I'd like to make a few general comments based on my own experiences with the Stream. First it is important to realize that the so-called "Gulf Stream" is basically a live animal that is constantly in motion and constantly changing. There are observable changes in any 24 hour period that can radically affect voyaging saiboats. So do not be surprised that you cannot Google up current AND reliable data on the Stream.

Second, you commented that only temperature data seems to be available. This is correct, but in fact that data is precisely what is observed in the infrared by satellite and used to make all other predictions and forecasts. There is no method to measure current via satellite, although the NOAA weather buoys can do this. Unfortunately the buoys don't move and the Stream does, so they are only of marginal value in this regard.

Next, you described a trip from NYC to Charleston offshore. In the general case you will not encounter any significant effects from the Stream, except perhaps in the vicinity of Hatteras, which is itself a separate subject (see below). If you are running from, say, Sandy Hook over to Cape Charles, you can run quite safely alongshore and never see any Gulf Stream effects. The same is true from Moorehead City over to Charleston Entrance. Of course it is always possible to "get lucky" and pick up the counter current just outside the West Wall, but that's usually only the case in and around the Florida Straits and not much further north.

Finally, Hatteras. It's certainly not my decision, but in general I would not volunteer for a trip in a small sailboat southbound in the vicinity of Hatteras in November. It can be done. I have done it and a number of my friends have done it. However even Fred in CD 28 Fenix had some forgettable adventures out there in late season, and he's a very experienced and highly skilled guy. But in the case of us "regular folk," I myself would run over to Norfolk, then go inside to Moorehead City, then jump off to Charleston, always keeping a weather eye at this time of year.

I wish you a safe and comfortable passage.

[chase]

Headed out tommorow for for my 4° Lat bump south. Is Herb's broadcast 1600 EST on 12359.0?

Kerrydeare, what frequency are the NOAA SSB broadcasts on?

I've got a yachtboy SSB receiver but have yet to use it on the water.

Have fun on your trip MArv, please do let us know about your adventure-


Chase

[marv brinn]

farmerchase
i do not have a ssb and am wondering why one needs that to obtain data on the stream......any how do you know the particulars about the stream at this time especially its proximity to Hattaras?

[Parfait's Provider]

Marv,

Been reading your mail and wondering who you will have for crew.

Good luck on your trip.

[The Patriot]

... Kerrydeare, what frequency are the NOAA SSB broadcasts on? ... I've got a yachtboy SSB receiver but have yet to use it on the water ...

I have this info in my communications log, but often the frequencies change. The data is available online, but just in case ...

NMN Norfolk High Seas Weather

1600, 2200 UTC

6501 Khz
8764
13089
17314

Offshore Forecast

0400, 1000 UTC

4426 Khz
6501
8764

1066, 2200 UTC (includes the Gulf Stream)

6501 Khz
8764
13089

High Seas Forecast

0530 UTC

4426 Khz
6501
8764

1130, 2330 UTC

6501 Khz
8764
13089

1730 UTC

8764 Khz
13089
17314

Southbound II (Herb) transmits Bermuda info @ 2230 UTC on 6224 Khz

I have some WEFAX schedules and frequencies if you require.

Regards.

Armond

[Russell]

farmerchase
i do not have a ssb and am wondering why one needs that to obtain data on the stream......any how do you know the particulars about the stream at this time especially its proximity to Hattaras?

Personally, southbound, I would opt to go inside and do the ICW for hatteras. Bucking the stream makes no sense and going far enough out to get out of the stream doesnt make much sense either.

Just my opinion.

[BillNH]

Take a thermometer with you (seriously). The west wall of the stream is usually much more defined than the eastern side. Hourly bucket water temps are very useful in knowing where you are relative to the stream and playing the eddies... You'll also notice changes in air temp, water color and possibly sea state depending on the wind or lack of...

When sailing northbound with the stream, avoid laying a course down the "axis of the stream" arrows on the chart. While this might give you the best boost it is also precisely where every northbound second mate on a tanker or container ship will lay his track. I know, I did exactly this for many years. Best to stay a few miles either side minimum...

Have a safe voyage,
Bill

[The Patriot]

Take a thermometer with you (seriously ... Hourly bucket water temps are very useful in knowing where you are relative to the stream and playing the eddies... Bill

To add to Bill's suggestions, I keep a fishtank thermometer in the nav box. Mine is tubular in shape with some sort of lanyard attached. Works quite well and is sufficiently accurate. Also, the bucket-over-the-side works (unfortunately I have lost a few poorly secured buckets when moving well), but another method that's weather and wind independent is to fill the head with sea water and measure the temperature there. An old Bermuda race trick that's significantly pre-GPS.

Keep us informed of your progress and good luck.

Armond

[Ldybg]

Marv,

For Line drawings for the GS try the Navy:
https://www.navo.navy.mil/cgi-bin/graph ... 19/0-0-5/1

Good Temperature Images:
http://fermi.jhuapl.edu/avhrr/index.html


As Armand noted the ON book Gulf Stream Companion is recommended

Temperature is a sure sign, last June the seawater temp seemed to increase one degree each minute (almost 10 degrees) as we came into the north wall in the Marion to Bermuda race.

Again Good Luck

Dennis