Bow roller for CD36

[Timsmale]

I've read through all of the numerous postings on bow rollers for the CD 36 but have not been able to obtain one that fits properly on my bowsprit for a 45 lb CQR (made by Danforth).

I own a CD 36 ketch in SoCal and am departing for a 2 yr cruise in 3 weeks south to Mexico and beyond, and have been researching, buying rollers, returning them, and scratching my head over the installation of a new bow roller on the pulpit of my CD36. I have a Danforth made 45 lb CQR anchor and cannot find a bow roller replacement. I would like one that pivots ideally, but moreover, I'd like it to have a ring or pin in place to keep the chain or rode from coming out of the bow roller when anchored. It presently has no pin or ring to keep it in place, though I've never had chain or rode come out of the roller before. I may be heading to the South Pacific, and have been advised to change the roller configuration to keep it in place during a rough anchoring session. I was in 45-knot winds last weekend at Catalina Island (in a wind tunnel called Cat harbor) in 3-5 ft pitching seas, with 140' of all chain 5/16 hi-test with no problems.

I am tempted to just leave it the way it is and move on to other pressing projects during our last 3 weeks, maybe using a line to keep the chain down on the roller during high seas. I always use a nylon snubber to take the load off the chain. I have led the chain, well chafe protected, through the chock, but this interferes with the bobstay.



I do have an Ideal electric windlass on order to use with my new 275' half-drum of new chain and 150' of rode on the port side, and will keep my old trusty Ideal manual horizontial windlass mounted in front of the staysail. It doesn't make sense to remove it and have large holes where it lives, and it will make a great backup. The manual gypsy will be used in the event I need to deploy the 130' of chain and 150' of rode on the stbd side.

I've tried using the Spartan bow roller, only it didn't fit my anchor properly. I've tried rollers from Lewmar and others to no avail. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Tim Smale

s/v Freestyle

[Russell]

I put two Windline model URM-1 rollers on my CD36, the factory setup was far from adequate. Your 45lb CQR will fit with no problem on one of these. It will cover all your requirements except for the pivot thing, I am not sure what you mean by this, I have never seen a pivoting anchor roller nor can I imagine why you would want one?

If you go the route I did, with the two URM-1s then install them offset so your second anchor doesnt interfere with the primary, I installed my primary roller about 4" forward of the secondary.

As for the pin, I use it to keep the anchor in place when underway, but never while anchored. You of course use a snubber to take the load off the bow platform and absorb shockloads and run that through a bow chock. The bowsprit is not adequate for taking full anchor loads so you dont have to worry about the the pin needing to keep the chain in the roller.

I am curious about your boat, I didnt know the CD36 was ever offered as a ketch, what year is your boat? Where is the mizzen stepped?

[Greg Kozlowski]

Hi Tim,

You should always run your snubber through the chocks port or starboard rather than directly over the bowsprit which I believe may not be strong enough for the loads.

Unless your bowsprit/bobstay has a different configuration than the rest of the CD36s built, you should have only superficial interferance from the bobstay - in other word, the boat starts coming back around at the first sign of contact with the bobstay.

I replaced the bow rollers on SHERPA in Trinidad about 7 years ago. I reused the original bronze pin and the rollers themselves were some no-name off the shelf product but have held up very well for the last 7 years. We carry a Bruce 15K and a 45 CQR on the bowsprit and they fit together like it was a custom installation.
[img]http://files.photojerk.com/Sherpa/dualanchors.jpg[/img]

[Parfait's Provider]

The boat next to me has a pivoting or articulated roller that looks ideal for weighing a heavy anchor. It provides a transition from horizontal to vertical over 6 to 12 inches. With the center pivot and a roller on each end, there is always a reasonable vertical and horizontal element to the pull on the rode.

On my 36 when the shank of the CQR reaches the roller there is a very high load placed on the bow sprit as the anchor shank tries to turn around the roller. At that point there is no vertical pull from the winch and all vertical load, or close to it. Bouncing in a seaway helps as does using a boat hook to raise the plow; it is best done by two people. A lousy design for an adequate anchor to say the least.

[John Ring]

Greg,

Why is the underside of your anchor platform white? Is that metal? Glass? Painted wood?

John Ring
CD28 Tantalus

[Greg Kozlowski]

John,

The bowsprit is painted underneath. I have also painted under the rubrail. Seems to hold up very well.

Ken,

Although I have an electric windlass, the last little bit of getting the anchor over the bowsprit roller, I always do by hand... pulling from standing position the anchor comes over the roller quite easily.

Greg

[Parfait's Provider]

Greg,

That works if there is room to drift, a good autopilot on the job, or a decent helm. I think a pair of rollers mounted permanently at 45° to the vertical might work too. Or a large single roller that actually turned. I might try that first as ugly as it sounds.

I get nervous up there on the sprit using two hands to mess with the rode when I am the only person on board who could rescue me. I'd much rather the windlass and the roller did their jobs while I hold on to the rail or forestay with one hand while cranking with the other.

[Russell]

I do as Greg does, the last bit of anchor is pulled up by hand. This ensures the anchor sits correctly (not upsidedown as it might want to come up) and avoids the awful strain on the windlass caused when the end of the shank reaches the roller and I need to go up there to set the pin that holds it in place anyways.

I dont really feel insecure up there even though I am alone. Anytime I am up there messing with the anchor, I am in an anchorage, not at sea, very little danger even if I did fall in. Only once was this a tricky situation, in Black Sound in the Exumas the wind shifted overnight and brought nasty waves into the anchorage across the banks, the bow took lots of water over it as I brought up the anchor. I sitll didnt feel in danger though, just had to go slowly and carefully. If I am pulling in that last bit while moving, I am tethered, as I always am when underway and out of the cockpit (a nessesity for single handing in my book).

I have also anchored in and pulled up anchor in very tight anchorages, solo and never once was worried. I leave my anchor dangling as I move away from the crowd, then pull up that last bit when I have space. I do the same coming in to anchor, before i reach the crowd, I let the anchor off the roller to dangle, ready to drop once i find my spot. As with everything about single handing, thinking ahead is everything, and this same method is generally used by most cruising couples as well. Another thing here is when I had just previously anchored in a sticky or dirty bottom, mud or muddy sand, I just leave the anchor in the water as I steam out of the anchorage to wash it, before going up to finish bringing it in.

I guess I still fail to see the need for this pivoting anchor roller. But of course we all have our own ways, mine works very well for me.

Tommorow I will get a picture of my anchor setup, I ment to do it today but got sucked into a project that took most of the day and 5 trips to the chandlery (I now have half of my new solar array mounted! 260w now! will be 370 tommorow!).

[Parfait's Provider]

Thanks Russell. Once again the voice of experience wins the day. I've too many other things on my mind and so I look for engineered solutions when oftentimes all that is needed is a different approach. I have anchored for lunch in some places with strong currents where there wasn't a lot of room and I, too, tend to dangle while moving to a more open space.

Your comment on the anchor coming up upside down is right on the money. If I were a betting man, I'd say that the anchor comes up wrong more than 1/2 the time. How can that be? Is it a clue about how to fix the problem? If we dangle in reverse, would that help? I wonder if a gypsy at the bow would alleviate this.

[Leonard Lookner]

We replaced ours this summer with the single roller from Spartan,
#R610s. It fit as original equipment must. I must say that I had to grind a little off the elbow of the CQR, probably because it was a CQR look alike. However, I have seen stainless rollers that mount along the side of the bowsprit and have no idea where to find one. I could have one custom made but does anyone know of an off the shelf model?

A great summer of sailing and now debate whether to shed the bread to get the bottom soda blasted.

[Russell]

Here are pictures of my setup:

[Timsmale]

I went out yesterday and purchased a Windline model URM-1 to try it out. If it works, I may buy another for the 45 lb Danforth as my secondary anchor set-up, usually kept in a lazarette and a big pain to bring forward. I appreciate the suggestions from everyone. The pictures from Russell are great - thanks! It looks like you chopped off the end of the bow where the old rollers were attached - is this correct? How did it go, what did you use as your your cutting weapon, a sawsall? I've been thinking that it's necesssary to cut the end off when installing new bow rollers because if you simply remove the old rollers, the remaining slots on the end of the bowsprit may not have enough strength any longer.

The need for a pivoting bow roller was first brought to light in a 1997 Practical Sailor article (p. 9 for those who save them) where the writer mentioned that the pivoting chute of the bow roller allows for hands-off operation. He was using a 60 lb CQR, and says that the pivoting chute guides the anchor shank into place. Furthermore, it allows for self-stowing and self-launching. I'm not sure if it avoids the dreaded 180-degree turn in the wrong direction, which I was hoping to eliminate. I think a pivot will help stop the problem of the anchor coming up to the end of it's shank, and then having to pivot the entire anchor up and over the roller. A pivot may make it easier, although I do not think it would make it hands free because of interference of the anchor shank with the roller furling drum as it comes over the bow roller (unless I raise it, which I'm not willing to right now).

As far as our 36 CD ketch, I'm told that it was the only one make, confirmed by multiple sources at Robinhood Marine and others. The mizzen is stepped about 18" inches from the companionway area of the deck. We're pleased with the setup, however, because the stern sags underwater so much at hull speed, I'm not sure the boat was designed for the added weight. The mainmast is probably not located any differently as a sloop CD36, as I'm sure they didn't custom design the mastep and hole through the deck. I'm the second owner of the vessel, and the previous owner is no longer with us, so we can't ask him any questions about the original order for the boat. It's interesting to note how many people who know CD 36's come up and ask about it, wondering if we changed the rig ourselves.

I really like the mizzen to lean up against during passages, and the ketch rig offers many more sailplan options for us. I think it looks a little more traditional and salty, if its possible to improve on the CD design, already the best looking one on the block.

If anyone is interested in seeing a picture of it, let me know and I'll take the time to figure out how to add it (unless someone wants to give me quick primer).

Happy sails,

[Russell]

The pictures from Russell are great - thanks! It looks like you chopped off the end of the bow where the old rollers were attached - is this correct? How did it go, what did you use as your your cutting weapon, a sawsall? I've been thinking that it's necesssary to cut the end off when installing new bow rollers because if you simply remove the old rollers, the remaining slots on the end of the bowsprit may not have enough strength any longer.

Yes, I cut off the slots where the old rollers used to be since they no longer would serve a purpose. I actually used a japanese pull saw to cut them, though a sawsall would cetainly do the job quicker! I dont have one onboard though. After cutting them I capped it as well, hard to see in the photos though. The problem here is that endgrain will tend to want to crack and such over time, its suprising CD didnt cap it origonally. Its just a 1/4" peice of teak epoxied on the end after cutting off the slots.

[chase]

Russell,

Thanks for taking the time to post the pics. I'm replacing my bowsprit this winter and will add at least one anchor roller similar to yours. Right now all I have is a rubber wheel in the end of my sprit and a small windline pin-latch mounted farther aft on the sprit for latching the chain. The 25# CQR took a good chunk out of the end last time out.

So, you're up over 300W tommorow? You're gonna be swimming in amperage, no?

Chase

[miguel mascaros]

Hey Leonard....
Be careful with the soda blasting....
My friend had it done on his Allied S/W II and turn out to be a nightmare...now he is looking at more work and expense that he bargained for....