Marine Head

[Big E]

OK, Cape Dory Nation...Is it possible to install a marine head in a CD25 (not D version) And if so, how much $$$ shall I expect to spend...My girlfriend is getting sick of the porta- pottie...any info would be appreciated!!

[Steve Laume]

I think you could pretty well figure out what a head installation would cost on your boat by picking up a West Marine catalog. It wouldn't be cheap. More importantly it wouldn't be easy. Even replumbing the sanitation hoses on my boat was a royal pain.

I guess I am wondering what you hope to gain. When I had the Typhoon we had a porta pottie. It was simple and easy to deal with. It took up no more room than it's foot print and was very easy to clean. You could take the whole thing off the boat, hose and scrub it all down. You never had to guess weather or not the holding tank was about to be full. You didn't have to wait around forever till a pump out boat showed up. Winterization was not an issue. Clogging is not a concern. No holes in the hull. Lots of other virtues too. If it messes up you can afford to pitch it and buy a new one instead of rebuilding. Did I say it was simple to use and maintain?

Much of this might have to do with the boat owner rather than the user. What is it that your girl friend doesn't like about it?

You are not making her carry the thing ashore and empty it are you?

Sometimes less is more, Steve.

[Carl Thunberg]

Here are some photos of my installation.

Water Tank Converted to Holding Tank
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Sanitation Hose Fitting
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This really isn't THAT big a project, and it's well within the grasp of someone who's mechanically inclined. The flush hose enters the tank up high and the pumpout hose exits the tank down low. You can barely make out the vent hose behind the sanitation hose fitting in the second photo. The trick is the pumpout deck fitting and the vent hose. They both require a deck penetration and all that entails. Remember, the deck has a balsa core. There's lots of information in the archives about how to repair a deck penetration. You will lose your water tank in the process. That can be replaced with a bladder tank under one of the salon settees. Oh yeah, and did I mention one through-hull fitting for the fresh water intake (assuming no overboard discharge, then you'd need two)?

Consider all Steve said, though. Only you can tell if the project is worth the effort.

[trapper]

We are going to investigate the Wagbag. Check it out:

http://www.thepett.com/index.php?PageLa ... &pageID=95

[Dave Brandt]

I think the biggest problem with installing a head on a CD-25 is the holding tank. I could not find one that really fit very well, so I ended up building one. If you want to to see some photos of the installation, take a look at:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9447350@N0 ... 596173271/

Dave

[Andy Denmark]

After years of dealing with marine toilet issues I finally found peace by installing a Porta Potti. It is simple -- an idiot can figure it out (even some of my relatives), it does not smell, it's easy to clean, it requires no plumbing, thru-hulls, hoses, space, leak repairs, dineros, or rebuild kits.

Seriously, while all of the above hold true, I think the Porta Potti is the ideal solution for the smaller Cape Dories. There simply isn't enough room in these CD's for all the hardware (if done properly) of a standard head/holding tank system without sacrificing precious storage space or water tankage. That said, I have reluctantly installed a Lectra San in a CD-25 (at the owner's insistence, mind you), and a standard marine head in a Typhoon (same).

For years I had a mental block against Porta Pottis but had no choice but install one when the Coast Guard discovered my direct discharge head in a routine inspection a few years ago. They gave me 30 days to have a compliant system installed or face a $1500 fine. Since I was on the verge of a several months long cruise to Florida I followed the path of least resistance. The wisdom of this decision (other than not having to pay the fine!) occurred to me when my then girlfriend/crew used the Porta Potti for the first time. Quote -- "That head is a joy to use. You don't have to be a plumber or engineer to figure out how to work it." That was the first time it was used - ever. She no longer dreaded to use the head like she did with the old system. Contrary to popular belief, the P/P is not a nasty thing to empty provided a minimum of care and common sense is used.

So, if simplicity, ease of operation, cost, olfactory considerations, and even aesthetics (no visible hoses, valves , pumps, bowls), etc. are important to you then consider a Porta Potti. It could solve the head problem simply and cheaply.

FWIW, I realized that about 25% of the boat maintenance issues disappeared after the P/P was put in. That head was a constant source of nasty problems.
________
COLORADO MARIJUANA DISPENSARY

[Andy Denmark]

After years of dealing with marine toilet issues I finally found peace by installing a Porta Potti. It is simple -- an idiot can figure it out (even some of my relatives), it does not smell, it's easy to clean, it requires no plumbing, thru-hulls, hoses, space, leak repairs, dineros, or rebuild kits.

Seriously, while all of the above hold true, I think the Porta Potti is the ideal solution for the smaller Cape Dories. There simply isn't enough room in these CD's for all the hardware (if done properly) of a standard head/holding tank system without sacrificing precious storage space or water tankage. That said, I have reluctantly installed a Lectra San in a CD-25 (at the owner's insistence, mind you), and a standard marine head in a Typhoon (same).

For years I had a mental block against Porta Pottis but had no choice but install one when the Coast Guard discovered my direct discharge head in a routine inspection a few years ago. They gave me 30 days to have a compliant system installed or face a $1500 fine. Since I was on the verge of a several months long cruise to Florida I followed the path of least resistance. The wisdom of this decision (other than not having to pay the fine!) occurred to me when my then girlfriend/crew used the Porta Potti for the first time. Quote -- "That head is a joy to use. You don't have to be a plumber or engineer to figure out how to work it." That was the first time it was used - ever. She no longer dreaded to use the head like she did with the old system. Contrary to popular belief, the P/P is not a nasty thing to empty provided a minimum of care and common sense is used.

So, if simplicity, ease of operation, cost, olfactory considerations, and even aesthetics (no visible hoses, valves , pumps, bowls), etc. are important to you then consider a Porta Potti. It could solve the head problem simply and cheaply.

FWIW, I realized that about 25% of the boat maintenance issues disappeared after the P/P was put in. That head was a constant source of nasty problems.
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VACCINATIONS ADVICE

[Al Levesque]

I made that choice when we bought our CD25 some 30 years ago. I looked at all the elements of a head with holding tank and related plumbing and quickly chose the portable. It served us well, even when we travelled as a family of five. It never got blocked, even with improper refuse inserted. Never had sea valves left open for possible flooding. Was very easy to dump at sea or in a local toilet. It was never confusing to use even for our 6 year old.

Even now in our CD33 we use a porta potty after we make our final dump and flush of our holding tank before haulout. I still marvel at the simplicity.

[Steve Laume]

"Even now in our CD33 we use a porta potty after we make our final dump and flush of our holding tank before haulout."

Al, what a great idea for mid winter use of the boat while she is layed up wet, in her slip! The marina bathrooms are okay for some purposes. An antifreeze jug has saved me a few long walks while working. If my new sweetie is to stay over and be working down there during the winter the portta pottie might be a great idea.

The whole overboard discharge thing is a bit of a mess (no pun)here in CT. It is very difficult to arrange a timely pump out in the summer. I don't know of anyplace I could go short of running offshore, in the winter, to empty my, 20 Gal, holding tank. This effectively makes the head unusable in the winter months. The portta pottie I could carry off and dump.

Hey, one more thing I discovered this summer is that spitting your mouth wash in the head instead of the sink gives not only your mouth but also your head a fresh minty taste. Well, er, a smell anyway, Steve.

[Troy Scott]

I just think we need to do something about all those fish pooping in the water. There ought to be a law....

[Steve Kuhar]

Many years ago I owned a Chrysler 22 equipped with a porta potti that was neatly tucked into a notch in the middle of the v berth, and just barely forward of the compression post. To "get situated" you had to crouch over facing forward in the four foot or so of headroom just aft of the compression post, grab the post as in firehouse fashion, and then swivel around and down to the sitting position.

Using the thing was not the real problem however. The real problem was design. What kind of sadist would design a porta potti with a five gallon reservoir and a three gallon holding tank? The most dreaded part of any sailing trip was one of the kids calling out "Daddy, the toilet won't flush". If that was not bad enough then there was the fact that the porta potti was to big to get out of its notch in one piece. You do not know what a bad trip is like until you have tried to disassemble a fully loaded porta potti in the middle of your v berth.

When the first flyer for the Cape Dory 25D, with its' sumptuous full width forward head came out, I ordered hull #5 sight unseen. I have been a happy Cape Dory, marine head equipped, sailor ever since.

Steve Kuhar

[Troy Scott]

Steve,

Like you, I remember when the 25D first came out. I thought then, and I still think it's the most intelligent and comfortable small sailboat design ever. Far better than a Flicka. The design has privacy, standing headroom, comfortable berths and sleeping and more all within graceful lines.

[Clay Stalker]

Troy-

I have to heartily agree that the 25D is a much prettier boat than the Flicka....and definately sails better too. I have a good friend with a nice 1985 Flicka named CHLOE that sails out of Apponaug Harbor in R.I.....I have sailed frequently on his boat and it is a slug unless the wind is blowing at least 15 knots.....and does not point well at all. It is beautifully constructed and unique in many ways (actually, it's a little tank!!) but the 25D beats it in most ways hands down. I also have a friend named Dick in Noank, CT who has one of the nicest 25Ds I have ever seen.....

[Dick Barthel]

n/m

[drysuit2]

I have to vote for the Porta Potty. I keep one on the Boat, and one in the truck for when we off road. [pack it in; pack it out!] You just have to empty them often. I just take the bottom holding tank, with me, to empty in the clubs toilet when I empty the garbage. They are less complicated than a marine head [read less to go wrong+ less maintenance] In the truck, I also keep it inside a Rubbermaid tub: just in case. I use the smaller 3 gallon holding tank but you can buy it with a larger one.