There's a CD25D for sale on 'Buy/Sell page'

[Sea Hunt]

Mr. Vigor:

It is my thinking that the prior survey is essentially useless in terms of "issues", sailboat value, etc. My reasoning is that Brandon apparently had a marine survey done before he bought her but that survey is now almost 1 ½ years old at least and would not have taken into consideration the fact that she has essentially sat at the dock for the past 12 months.

I am told that the worst thing you can do to a sailboat is not use her. All kinds of things go bad, deteriorate, crack, etc.

Because she is in the water at a private dock, I have no practical way (except towing, etc. which is a significant expense) to get her to a marina to be hauled for a hull inspection, etc.

I may be wrong, but given Brandon's extensive experience and knowledge, if the problem with the current Yanmar were readily repairable, Brandon would have done it or, if lacking the time to do it, would have hired a mechanic to do it. That this has not been done suggest that there is a significant issue with this Yanmar - an issue that may well be not worth the cost to repair. I just do not know which is why I would factor into any offer the cost to replace the motor/gear box completely. By the way, I have gotten a few additional estimates of replacing with the IGM 10. Yikes

I would welcome your criticism of the above reasoning, as well as the criticism of others on this board. I essentially have the month of October to research motors, towing, marine surveys, marinas for haul out, etc.

I thank all of you in advance for your kindness, suggestions, and offers of assistance.

Robert

[Neil Gordon]

I am told that the worst thing you can do to a sailboat is not use her. All kinds of thinks go bad, deteriorate, crack, etc.

Depends where the boat is and what happens during the period of non-use. For example:

A motor that's not properly winterized and is subject to freezing/thawing might suffer. That's not going to be the case with your boat since the engine's out of the boat.

The bottom might become a science experiment. Less likely if the bottom is properly painted but it's not a fatal defect in any case. Blisters, maybe not they're not the most common Cape Dory problem.

Teak wears the same whether the boat is used or not.

Decks... probably about the same whether the boat is used or not.

Interior... might get mold if the boat is closed up for long periods of time, but this is easy to spot/check without a survey.

Rigging... both standing and running, suffer more when used. The exception is areas that might chafe from being in the same position for a year or more. Again, easy to check without a survey.

I still think the two of you should reach an agreement that takes the cost of the engine rebuild or whatever into consideration (that may already be in the price) and otherwise agree that "as is" means that a new survey will approximate the 1 1/2 year old one with whatever exceptions you can agree to. Hold back some money if need be, pending the new survey.

It's what John Vigor and others have said... for $13,000 plus the cost of an engine rebuild and maybe some sweat, you get a great boat at a bargain price.

[Oswego John]

Hi all,

Maybe I missed it, but I'm still wondering just what the reason was for removing the engine.

Was it a self diagnosis or was it called for by a professional. How bad was the problem?

Just being curious,
O J

[Sea Hunt]

Hello John:

That's a very good question. I had not thought to ask Brenno why he removed the engine. Like I have repeatedly said, I am a dummy

Perhaps Brenno will read your post and respond. In his post on the "for sale" section of this site he wrote the following:

"Engine Diagnosis: I went through the regular checkups to get her running. (Fuel filter, primed, battery, ect ect...) The regular answer I hear from mechanics is that there was one flaw with the Yanmar 1GM. The exhaust elbow was made in a way that allowed very small amounts of water spray back into the port. I happened to find the same engine with the same problem here in Sag Harbor (at Ship a Shore Marina/ boat yard). The owner of the yard told me that he's seen this same problem over and over again with these 1GMs. He told me what has to be done is the head must be removed and re-machined. The valves also must be removed and reseated. He said that I should also have a custom exhaust manifold made the has a similar shape to a 'ciphon break' that is found in many plumbing situations. For someone that is comfortable taking these pieces off and sending them to a machinist, they can walk away with a good deal."

I assumed from the above that the problem was sufficiently serious or so difficult to diagnose that Brenno, being very knowledgeable and experienced, made the decision to remove the Yanmar and physically bring it to a marine diesel mechanic. I would be very uncomfortable relying on what another Yanmar owner says was the problem with his engine as being the probable diagnosis of what's wrong with Brenno's engine. But then, I am a "tadpole".

Fair winds,

[Brandon]

Sea Hunt,

Although I do have much experience in the yachting field, that doesn't mean the work would be done already if it could have been. If any of you are familiar with the life of a Private Yacht Captain, you would be familiar with the fact that we 'yachties' don't have a personal life. I should have thought this well through before I bought this sailboat. Dreams don't always let you see 20/20. Even last winter when I was based out of Miami Beach I was lucky if I could find a day to run up to Pompano to do some waxing. Whenever I did get a chance to get away I went up there and put some wax on the paint, took a heat gun and scraper to remove old varnish, polished stainless, cleaned the interior and poked my head in all the small corners. When I found out about my engine problem I was running a boat that was going to the Bahamas in a few weeks. Between the yard period for this vessel (when you spend over $45,000 in one week on things that barely scratch the surface... the owner wants you working all day, every day) and passage plans for a busy islands trip, I just couldn't step away. I took that boat to the Bahamas, and for good reasons left the boat and owner to find their way back. I immediatly started another job taking deliverery of a new yacht in Long Island and have been here since. A year goes by pretty fast for me, and finding time to get this work done isn't so easy. I didn't want to pay someone else to do it while I was gone because A- I don't want to pay someone $100/hour to do the things I can so easily do myself (and I like to be there to make sure I'm not paying that wage for them to take smoke breaks and chat time with the neighbors) . B- I love doing this kind of work. This is a small engine with an easily remedied issue once the time and motivation is rounded up and brought together. I would bet that I could get this engine running in two 2-day weekends (and a few Red Bulls) if I was able to find that time.

Sea Hunt. I've seen your posts for well over a year and know that you would love to buy a Cape Dory yesterday. Your lack of experience is scaring you away from good opportunity. I know you must be careful with your purchase, but I think you are making it a much more difficult process of thought than it needs to be. This is a very small boat and it doesn't take long to check it out for problems. You have an amazing support group here that will know these boats better than most surveyors and can tell you what to look for. I'm not saying that you wouldn't want to get a surveyor, and I would never recommend that. But when you say things like 'I've been told that the worst thing you can do to a sailboat is to let it sit for long periods of time....' . I tend to think you are being defeated by the filtered wisdom of weekend warriors. Yes, it's true that using a boat is better than not. But the environment that boat is left in is a big factor. The type, size and compexity of the boat and it's systems are big factors. There are many people that will take the experienced wisdom of a man like John Vigor and use it as if it were their own. Unfortunatly more often than not it is misused.

Try not to make this process harder than it needs to be, while still remaining cautious. With boats you need to have large amounts of Money or Knowledge or Will to figure it out. If you have all of things things, well Lucky You. If you don't have any of them, stick to land... it's cheaper and less frustrating. It's also less rewarding (in my opinion!). You have over a month to do your research. All you need to know could be found in one day of research, other than that you just gotta look at the boat for yourself.

I do have other interest in the boat. At the end of the day I'm going to handle this as a business transaction. Don't waste too much time trying to figure out how much more you can get me to lower the price. I've already done that. I've built in some room in the asking price, but not much. I wanted to start off with a reasonable price, because I'm not looking to pass on my problems to someone else, I'm looking to come out with a business transaction that both parties can float away happy with. I want the person I sell this boat to to be happy enough with the purchase that they would want to invite me on a daysail with them sometime! (not a requirement )

This a great boat for the price. Try to find something comparable. It won't be easy.

[Brandon]

I knew that I would be quitting my job sooner or later, and I thought that when I did quit my job I would take a couple of weeks off before looking for another. With this time I was going to rent out a small storage unit and happily do the work myself. Instead I got suckered into taking another job immediatly. I'm sure you can imagine that it's much easier to set up an engine on a raised pallet, with a battery, a bucket of water and open space, than to try to do this work inside the boat it's related to.

Now the engine sits firmly secured to a pallet in a nice air conditioned storage unit, waiting to be brought back to life.

The end.

[rtbates]

Hello John:

That's a very good question. I had not thought to ask Brenno why he removed the engine. Like I have repeatedly said, I am a dummy

Perhaps Brenno will read your post and respond. In his post on the "for sale" section of this site he wrote the following:

"Engine Diagnosis: I went through the regular checkups to get her running. (Fuel filter, primed, battery, ect ect...) The regular answer I hear from mechanics is that there was one flaw with the Yanmar 1GM. The exhaust elbow was made in a way that allowed very small amounts of water spray back into the port. I happened to find the same engine with the same problem here in Sag Harbor (at Ship a Shore Marina/ boat yard). The owner of the yard told me that he's seen this same problem over and over again with these 1GMs. He told me what has to be done is the head must be removed and re-machined. The valves also must be removed and reseated. He said that I should also have a custom exhaust manifold made the has a similar shape to a 'ciphon break' that is found in many plumbing situations. For someone that is comfortable taking these pieces off and sending them to a machinist, they can walk away with a good deal."

I assumed from the above that the problem was sufficiently serious or so difficult to diagnose that Brenno, being very knowledgeable and experienced, made the decision to remove the Yanmar and physically bring it to a marine diesel mechanic. I would be very uncomfortable relying on what another Yanmar owner says was the problem with his engine as being the probable diagnosis of what's wrong with Brenno's engine. But then, I am a "tadpole".

Fair winds,

Fear not. IF it's the exhaust elbow having developed a leak in the inner tube that allows sea water to enter the exhaust port and causing it to corrode through into the pushrod tubes the fix is very very simple. REPLACE the head.. It's less than $500 with valves. I replaced mine along with the inj and all new parts that attach to the head. Total parts cost $700. I did the work myself. It takes about 1/2 hour to remove a 1GM head all the while sitting or squating on the salon sole. It's a piece of cake. My first diesel repair. Having it on a bench just makes it so easy a caveman could do it!! To determine if that's the problem, simply remove the valve cover , one 10mm nut and lift. Look at the pushrod tubes. Are they black like they should look or a rust color. IF rust color there's a hole between the pushrod tube galley and the exhaust port. You now have a paper weight. Get a new one!! AND an exhaust elbow AND a spare. Now every year, two max, take the exhaust elbow off, three 12mm nuts and two hose clamps and check it out. Nobody seems to do this and that's why the head develops holes, usually after years of running with a hole in the elbow's inner tube that allows cooling water to enter the exhaust port. By the way .It has nothing to do with a GOOD exhaust elbow design, It's how it functions AFTER holes develop. A little preventative maintenance makes it all a non issue.
Good luck

Let me add that the mechanic who told you he's seen lots of this AND the fix is to re-machine the head(whatever that means)...run run run away. Holes develop in the exhaust port/push rod tube galley and the only 're-machining' that would fix it is a welder....Just get a new one. And, yes, several folks have had custom elbows made. BUT all that prevents is the seawater from entering the exhaust port AFTER the inner tubing develops it's leaks. Just check it out every now and again. http://www.yanmarhelp.com/

[Mike Wainfeld]

One of my friends called me to tell me he saw a Typhoon in the classifieds. I called the guy and went to look at the boat. It looked OK. He seemed like a nice guy. No haul, no survey. It came with a motor which did not work.
I have had a wonderful time with that boat for the past 10 years. I went for a really nice sail Sunday morning.
Sea Hunt-Do not sell yourself short. You are not more of a "tadpole" or a dummy, than ANYONE ELSE ON THIS BOARD. And everyone else will agree with me on that. I do not claim to be more knowlegeable or skilled than any other sailor. Every time I go out I see or do something a little different. I just want to be out on the water and make the telltales stream back together. You can't do that if you don't have a boat.
You are more of an accomplished waterman than you let on. Now Buy a @#$%^&* boat already!!!!!! You drivin' me crazy!!!!
Mike

[barfwinkle]

Hey Sea Hunt you should name the boat Tadpole

[Lew Gresham]

I think more is lost by indecision than wrong decision.

[Neil Gordon]

Hey Sea Hunt you should name the boat Tadpole

How about "Tadpole II" since we know who Tadpole I is.

[Sea Hunt]

Mike, Bill and Lew:

I agree with, and endorse, all of your comments and suggestions. Thanks.

I am also planning on looking at a CD Ty Weekender on the west coast of Florida later this week or early next week. No trailer but the photos show her in good condition. Time will tell.

Fair winds,

[trapper]

Seahunt,

You could buy my "QT" and I could buy Whispers.

[Brandon]

I'm back in Fort Lauderdale. Anyone interested in buying email me and we will arrange to meet. I'm only here until the 30th. If I can get someone down here to buy this boat by the time I leave they can help clear my 'To Do' list and save some cash.

Ready, Set, GO!

[Sea Hunt]

Brenno:

I just sent you a PM