Pre-purchase CD36 questions.

[Bob Shulman]

We just looked at a 1984 CD36 that has been in the water year round for most of her life in the Northern Chesapeake. The boat has not been covered but has had a bubbler to prevent ice around the hull. Is anyone aware of particular problems related to this kind of storage? There does appear to be more rust than I am used to seeing. e.g., on the binnacle, in the sink, on the engine mounts (one of the mounting"pipes" has rusted enough to cause some cracking in the surrounding glass). Also, the engine appears to have been recently painted, even though there has been no mechanical work done (rust?). The boat is an odd mixture of neglect and care. The original sails, dodger, and covers are in terrible shape, and there is some delamination of the cabin sole due to a leaking mast boot, but the decks and cabin trunk have been recently professionally painted, and the bright work is in nice condition. I imagine that the decks and cabin were in pretty rough shape before the paint job. Has anyone had experience with crazing re-appearing though a carefull paint job? The owner reports that the boat has been hauled regurlarly for painting, and the there are no evident blisters. Any ruminations or comments would be highly appreciated.
We have been looking for a CD36 and have seen most of the boats currently listed on YachtWorld. It's kind of discouraging how inaccurate the broker's listings are, and how unable or unwilling most of them are to provide detailed information regarding upgrades and maintenance. One of the 36's had been hit by lightning and burned from the cockpit to the mast. The broker did not mention this beforehand; I found out from the owner after asking questions about an odd-looking repair. Another was listed as "meticulously maintained" even though the brightwork had not been touched in several years, the decks were in poor shape, and the rudder was loose enough at the bottom fitting to likely need a major repair. This same broker appeared aggravated when I asked him how old the sails were. Also, most of them are reluctant to allow a careful inspection by the perspective buyer, but would prefer a deposit and survey, allowing the buyer to spend several hundred dollars to find out about possible problems. It appears that "shows very nicely" may mean that she is still visable above the water? Perhaps I am expecting too much.
Bob S

[Sea Hunt]

Hello Bob:

I am not anywhere near your level of knowledge, experience, etc.

I have been looking for a Cape Dory for some time. Dick B. referred to me recently as the "ultimate [Cape Dory] hunter".

I guess I have been lucky. With only one exception that I can think of, the CDs I have looked at (Ty Weekenders, CD 22s, CD 25s CD 25Ds and CD 27s) have been pretty much as advertised or as represented in phone calls with the owner and/or broker.

I try to make sure the owners send recent photos of their CD before I expend funds to travel to look at the CD.

I also talk with the broker (if involved) and tell him to let me know in advance about problems, issues, etc. If not and they are present, I will walk away immediately. This usually results in more candid descriptions.

I have also been pleasantly surprised by several CDs that were truly in "Bristol" condition although the owners merely represented them to be "good" condition. When pressed, they said they did not want to appear to be bragging about their CDs.

I wish you well in your search.

Fair winds,

[Neil Gordon]

Paint is cosmetic. If there are cracks under the paint, paint won't fix the flaw. The crack will eventually open up again, as before.

Sounds like lots of cosmetic work was done but you're not sure of the overall condition of the boat. Get a good survey done and you'll know.

[Jeff Barnes]

Bob

I have owned my CD36 since 1999. It is #68 (1982). I have done a significant amount of work on the boat (mostly upgrades ina number of areas, as well as new sails, brightwork re-do (varnish), awlgrip the hull and spars, electronics, etc. The boat when purchased was in miserable shape form a cosmetic standpoint, but everything else was excellent (engine, rudder, hull, and so on). Obviously the survey will tell you a lot if and when you find a boat that strikes your fance. Be prepared for some work however, I have seen many CD36s is great condition, but not for sale. Once you have survey done, ping this board for lots of advice, help etc. on almost any job. I've done countless projects myself and would be happy to help in anyway possible.

Jeff

[Troy Scott]

Bob,

I bought my CD36, hull #152, about 18 months ago from Robinhood Marine Center. Dave Perry was the broker. He was great to work with. He answered all my questions and let me spend hours alone with the boat. I had a similar experience checking out a Hinckley Pilot 35 just before that. Any broker should be polite and let you check out the boat thoroughly.

My CD36 had extensive gelcoat crazing of the deck. The previous owners had painted the nonskid areas, presumably in an effort to address the crazing, but the cracks had all come back. We have sanded off all the paint and opened all the cracks and filled them. I believe the cracks happened because the gelcoat was applied too thickly. They get worse if the boat is left uncovered in the winter and water freezes in the cracks. I think you should find out how (or if) the crazing was addressed before deck was painted.

If the boat was always in the water it really should be checked for blisters. The boat should be hauled and a good survey done. It's money well spent if you're serious about the boat.

My engine mount was very rusty, but probably not as bad as yours. The original steel bed was only primed with what appeared to be a red lead primer. This is a serious shortcoming in something that should last a lifetime. Also, the engine had supposedly been rebuilt, but this was really a few gaskets and some paint applied without removing the engine. I pulled the engine/transmission and had them rebuilt at a local diesel shop. The total bill was about $4,500. I removed the old steel engine bed. This was a VERY difficult job. I used a Sawzall. I tried to cut between the bed and the hull in most areas but occasionally I had to cut lengthwise through the steel pipes. I had the bed copied in a new steel weldment, with sealed ends this time. I had it blasted, zinc coated, epoxy primed, and now I'm painting it with bilge paint. I'll be glassing it in soon.

I expect to launch sometime this year. I believe the boat will be as good as new and probably more beautiful. But I will have HUNDREDS of man-hours and lots of money in the project.

I've left out a lot. I could type for hours about this project. If I can help you, let me know.

[Matt Cawthorne]

If you have significant engine mount rust then you likely have leaks in the cockpit. Perhaps around the scuppers, locker coamings or engine control panel. I had the same problem with my mount. Rusted to the point of cracking the glass from the riser at the starboard, aft engine mount to the back of the tube. Last winter I ground the glass away and found that the tube itself was only badly rusted in the last inch or so. The rest of the tube appears very solid with no pitting or heavy corrosion. I re-glassed it and am not at all worried about the mount. That said, if the engine comes out for maintenance the mount will be replaced with either fiberglass or galvanized steel.

Some mechanics like a nice looking engine and paint them frequently. That is not a bad sign or a good sign.


I still have my original sails and they perform well. They are not pretty to look at, but at 24 years old, they still can tolerate 30 knots. I know this because I had them out in 30 knots a couple of weeks ago. I reef earley so they are not too beat up, and they have been re-stiched.

If the boat has been in the water for over a year and there are no blisters, that is a good sign. You will not know until the boat is hauled.

The cabin sole may be damaged due to a shower leak. Not uncommon.

If you have the money, wait for a nice one. What are they asking for the boat?


Matt

[mahalocd36]

Hi Bob,
I don't think you are expecting too much. I second Troy's opinion regarding buying through Dave Perry. He used to work for Cape Dory and knows a lot about these boats. When we were looking we were lucky to have two available at the time, in pretty nice shape, so the decision came down to options they had and which one we 'liked' better.

He let us spend time alone on both boats looking at what we wanted, and, having never sailed a Cape Dory, took us for a test sail out of Robinhood. This was before an offer and a survey, though it was pretty clear to him we were going to buy one of them - it was just a matter of which one. We were straight up with him - he was straight up with us. Just like a realtor, they are working for the seller, so don't expect volunteering of all sorts of information. The previous owners of Mahalo gave us her maintenance records they had after we bought her. Though
they did volunteer some of the things that had been done before
we bought her.

Funny, we looked at other boats before settling on a Cape Dory. One was a boat that had the traveller line worn down to the core. Now, if they let something that obvious and that cheap to fix go without fixing - we knew that there was probably plenty else left unmaintained. So we didn't waste much time with that boat.

However we did find that boat listings were often like house listings, they aren't going to list out negatives very often.

Good luck!

[John Nebilak]

Bob,

Please contact me at john.nebilak@aerojet.com regarding looking for a CD36. I own one and would like to move up to a CD40 if I can put together the right deal.

Thanks,

John
Indigo