I saw a boat that is nearly identical to the CD36 that was built by a Canadian boat builder named Adriatic Yacht Ltd. It is called an Alberg 37, but doesn't look anything like the Alberg 37 built by Whitby. The boat I saw was built in 1978 (one year prior to the first CD36). I was wondering if anyone has heard anything about Adriatic Yacht or this boat.
glennco@cambio.acomp.usf.edu
CD36 predecessor: Adriatic Alberg 37???
Moderator: Jim Walsh
Adriatic-Alberg 37 = Cape Dory 36
I just bought a boat that is registered as a 1978 Adriatic-Alberg 37 (hull number 182374430). It is identical to CD36 (accept in price). Supposedly this boat was build by Whitby. Does any know anything about this?
Last edited by Jim_B on Mar 3rd, '09, 11:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Parfait's Provider
- Posts: 764
- Joined: Feb 6th, '05, 13:06
- Location: CD/36 #84, Parfait, Raleigh, NC
berthed Whortonsville, NC
Maybe Dave Perry Knows??
Other than the cusions, it sure looks like a CD36.
Keep on sailing,
Ken Coit, ND7N
CD/36 #84
Parfait
Raleigh, NC
Ken Coit, ND7N
CD/36 #84
Parfait
Raleigh, NC
The cushions were recovered. But the shape seems correct.
Is it strange that the Hull Identification Nunber doesn't follow the required convention:
http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hin.htm
The boat has a Perkins 4-108
Is it strange that the Hull Identification Nunber doesn't follow the required convention:
http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hin.htm
The boat has a Perkins 4-108
I just went through the pictures you posted, you have a Cape Dory 36, and its not a 1978 boat at all. This was built in 1982 at the earliest and 1985 at the latest.
I know this due to your interior layout, the CD36 had 3 different layouts in its life.
The first layout which lasted till 82 had a two strait setees and a centerline saloon table, and the starboard lockers across from the head are both full height hanging lockers.
From 82 to 85 the layout changed to having an L setee to port and a fold down table. Across from the head one of the hanging lockers was changed to half height and turned into drawers. (this is your model).
85 to the end of production (and now the standard robinhood layout) the saloon is the same but the head is enlarged and mast is now inside the head, hanging lockers across from the head are back to full height again.
Now, I am sure you have a cape dory for a few reasons. One being, it makes no sense that if it was built by someone else first with a more modern layout, that cape dory would start building it later with an older layout then switch to this newer one later. Second, the joinery style is identical to Cape Dory, in cases where multipule builders have built the same boat the style of joinery is not identicle. Interior style is not specifified in designer plans, this is up to the builder, the CD36 continued the convention and style of other Cape Dorys and it evolved with time, your early 80s Cape Dory is just like other early 80s Cape Dorys. Third, most of the hardware on your boat is Spartan hardware, a company Cape Dory started themselves to make their own bronze hardware.
You have a Cape Dory, if I was in your situation, and actually even though I am not, I would do some serious research into the history of your boat and why it came to be listed as it was. You siad the HID doesnt follow convention, do you mind posting the HID so we can compare it to other CD36s?
When boat sales are made, at least USCG documented boat sales you get a full paper trail of the boats history. Perhaps your boat isnt USCG documented?
What I would be concerned about here is if a previous owner somewhere was hiding something. Is the boat stolen for instance? Or maybe it was a case of an owner dying, the heirs knowing little or caring little about the specifics of the boat and just handed it to an incompetent broker to handle who listed the boat wrong.
You mention a hull # in your first boat, that number you posted is neither a HID or a USCG doc #, where is this number from? Where you need to look is on the transom, to starboard, you should see an imprinted HID which is alphanumeric, but if the hull has been painted it may be unreadable. I notice in your pictures that the builders plate is not there and you have something carved in where it would be, I can even see the date 1978. Looking at this I really think something very wrong is happening in this boats history which someone actually tried to hide. 9 tons net tonnage? Nope, thats entirely wrong, even if it was not a CD36, tonnage is definately not 9 tons. Unless they were trying to list the weight of the boat? which wouldnt make sense, there is net and gross tonnage and neither is the weight of the boat. There is either idiocy or deception in the history of your boat (I suspect deception).
You do have an early 80s CD36 though, that I am sure of, congrats its a great boat! And it looks to be in nice cosmetic condition as well. But you really should get to the bottom of this nonsense. The HID should help you out (top right on the transom) to find the real history of the boat, but I wouldnt be suprised if it was unreadable or hidden considering everything else.
I know this due to your interior layout, the CD36 had 3 different layouts in its life.
The first layout which lasted till 82 had a two strait setees and a centerline saloon table, and the starboard lockers across from the head are both full height hanging lockers.
From 82 to 85 the layout changed to having an L setee to port and a fold down table. Across from the head one of the hanging lockers was changed to half height and turned into drawers. (this is your model).
85 to the end of production (and now the standard robinhood layout) the saloon is the same but the head is enlarged and mast is now inside the head, hanging lockers across from the head are back to full height again.
Now, I am sure you have a cape dory for a few reasons. One being, it makes no sense that if it was built by someone else first with a more modern layout, that cape dory would start building it later with an older layout then switch to this newer one later. Second, the joinery style is identical to Cape Dory, in cases where multipule builders have built the same boat the style of joinery is not identicle. Interior style is not specifified in designer plans, this is up to the builder, the CD36 continued the convention and style of other Cape Dorys and it evolved with time, your early 80s Cape Dory is just like other early 80s Cape Dorys. Third, most of the hardware on your boat is Spartan hardware, a company Cape Dory started themselves to make their own bronze hardware.
You have a Cape Dory, if I was in your situation, and actually even though I am not, I would do some serious research into the history of your boat and why it came to be listed as it was. You siad the HID doesnt follow convention, do you mind posting the HID so we can compare it to other CD36s?
When boat sales are made, at least USCG documented boat sales you get a full paper trail of the boats history. Perhaps your boat isnt USCG documented?
What I would be concerned about here is if a previous owner somewhere was hiding something. Is the boat stolen for instance? Or maybe it was a case of an owner dying, the heirs knowing little or caring little about the specifics of the boat and just handed it to an incompetent broker to handle who listed the boat wrong.
You mention a hull # in your first boat, that number you posted is neither a HID or a USCG doc #, where is this number from? Where you need to look is on the transom, to starboard, you should see an imprinted HID which is alphanumeric, but if the hull has been painted it may be unreadable. I notice in your pictures that the builders plate is not there and you have something carved in where it would be, I can even see the date 1978. Looking at this I really think something very wrong is happening in this boats history which someone actually tried to hide. 9 tons net tonnage? Nope, thats entirely wrong, even if it was not a CD36, tonnage is definately not 9 tons. Unless they were trying to list the weight of the boat? which wouldnt make sense, there is net and gross tonnage and neither is the weight of the boat. There is either idiocy or deception in the history of your boat (I suspect deception).
You do have an early 80s CD36 though, that I am sure of, congrats its a great boat! And it looks to be in nice cosmetic condition as well. But you really should get to the bottom of this nonsense. The HID should help you out (top right on the transom) to find the real history of the boat, but I wouldnt be suprised if it was unreadable or hidden considering everything else.
Russell
s/v (yet to be named) Tayana 42CC
s/v Lady Pauline Cape Dory 36 #117 (for sale)
s/v (yet to be named) Tayana 42CC
s/v Lady Pauline Cape Dory 36 #117 (for sale)
I was flipping through your photos some more after my last post and I had a thought. Reguarding the number you have carved into your boat in the companionway. Perhaps it at one point was a canadian registered boat? I know nothing of canadian registraion numbers (ts certainly not a USCG reg number). Or maybe it is a state reg number (though not the current FL one on your bow). Still doesnt explain the 1978 or the incorrect tonnage. Though perhaps the 1978 is for some reason there because of the design year? Which is probably correct for the CD36, though I cant imagine why the design year would be carved in. If a prior owner felt he wanted the design year carved in for no apparent reason, then perhaps the 9 tons can be explained as well with them wanting the actual weight of the boat carved in as well rather then proper net or gross tonnage. I am really leaning towards the boat having a previous life being registered internationally with different requirements and numbering schemes at some point in its life. Check out that HID on the transom. I am very curious!
Russell
s/v (yet to be named) Tayana 42CC
s/v Lady Pauline Cape Dory 36 #117 (for sale)
s/v (yet to be named) Tayana 42CC
s/v Lady Pauline Cape Dory 36 #117 (for sale)
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Parfait's Provider
- Posts: 764
- Joined: Feb 6th, '05, 13:06
- Location: CD/36 #84, Parfait, Raleigh, NC
berthed Whortonsville, NC
Cushions
Those are not stock Cape Dory Cushions. See the Nautical Quarterly article on this site for a photo of the standard cushions for the model of CD that is relevant:
http://www.capedory.org/nqarticle/index.html
http://www.capedory.org/nqarticle/index.html
Last edited by Parfait's Provider on Apr 14th, '07, 23:15, edited 1 time in total.
Keep on sailing,
Ken Coit, ND7N
CD/36 #84
Parfait
Raleigh, NC
Ken Coit, ND7N
CD/36 #84
Parfait
Raleigh, NC
Russel - thanks for the thoughts. The hull number is the same as the number carved over the companion way.
I too thought the boat may have been registered in Canda but can't find any information on the web regarding the format of the registration numbers. There is a brass plate (just beneath the barometer/clock that says Adriatic-Alberg 37 and the hull number). Do other Alberg 37's have this plate? (I realize this plate could have been attached later in the boats' life).
I wish this boat had the 'standard' saloon cushions - those look more comfortable than what I have.
Thanks again for all the thoughts. - Jim
I too thought the boat may have been registered in Canda but can't find any information on the web regarding the format of the registration numbers. There is a brass plate (just beneath the barometer/clock that says Adriatic-Alberg 37 and the hull number). Do other Alberg 37's have this plate? (I realize this plate could have been attached later in the boats' life).
I wish this boat had the 'standard' saloon cushions - those look more comfortable than what I have.
Thanks again for all the thoughts. - Jim
Alberg 37 and the Builders Plate
To see what a Whitby (builders of the Alberg 30 and 37) go to the Alberg 37 site and click on builders plate. http://www.alberg37.org/
It isn't much, Blue Aluminium and the number stamped in. Your number does not follow the Whitby numbering. The plate was used by Whitby on al their boats. The first two digits - length, the second two - year and the remaining number in that size. It has no relation to US or Canadian government numbers .
Good luck.
It isn't much, Blue Aluminium and the number stamped in. Your number does not follow the Whitby numbering. The plate was used by Whitby on al their boats. The first two digits - length, the second two - year and the remaining number in that size. It has no relation to US or Canadian government numbers .
Good luck.
Jim Davis
S/V Isa Lei
S/V Isa Lei
The number imprinted in the transom is the same as the one over the companionway? Or the number on this builders plate matches it? I am suprised if the number imprinted in the transom matches this, given everything else I kind of expect your HIN on the transom to be obscured or removed.jsbkc wrote:Russel - thanks for the thoughts. The hull number is the same as the number carved over the companion way.
Russell
s/v (yet to be named) Tayana 42CC
s/v Lady Pauline Cape Dory 36 #117 (for sale)
s/v (yet to be named) Tayana 42CC
s/v Lady Pauline Cape Dory 36 #117 (for sale)
RE: CD36 predecessor: Adriatic Alberg 37???
I am the original poster.
When I viewed the boat I saw back in 1999, it was located at a brokerage in Brandenton, Florida. The name of the boat was Sugar. At the time I had already looked at several Cape Dories and this boat looked exactly like them in almost every aspect...the same brokerage had 2 Cape Dory 36's listed (at more that double the price) that we looked at to compare the boats. I checked every lead that I could find and was able to locate the previous 2 owners (both had no real info on it's origin) but could not locate the 3rd. I called several State of Florida departments, the US Coast Guard documentation center, the Canadian Coast Guard, and had the broker call Dave Perry at Robinhood Yachts (previously of Cape Dory Yachts)...all to no avail. After 2 weeks of diligent research, I couldn't find anyone who had heard of Adriatic Yachts, Ltd. I wondered if the "Ltd" meant that they only produced one boat.
The price of the vessel was very right, but it needed a lot of work and money invested. The engine beds were very badly rusted and one mount had competely deteriorated. The bifold doors to the v-berth would not close properly and I suspected hull deformation as the cause (but never verified as no survey was done). The running rigging was shot and the standing rigging was suspect enough to warrant replacement, there was no canvas and the sails were crusty. Otherwise it appeared to be a sound vessel. The broker told me that the couple that owned it, used it as a winter "condo" and hadn't taken it out of the slip for years.
Perplexed yet enamoured, taking into account the necessary repairs, I made a very low offer that was refused...then 3 weeks later the broker called and said the owner would accept...alas, i was already making a deal on the Cape Dory 30c that I now own.
As I recall, the HIN didn't conform to the standard because the federal requirements for the now current standard were not mandated until after 1978. The boat was Florida state registered and could not be US documented since it was built outside of the US. It did not have the carving in the companioway as your pictures show...it had a designer plate very much like the Cape Dory plate.
Hope this helps with your mystery.
When I viewed the boat I saw back in 1999, it was located at a brokerage in Brandenton, Florida. The name of the boat was Sugar. At the time I had already looked at several Cape Dories and this boat looked exactly like them in almost every aspect...the same brokerage had 2 Cape Dory 36's listed (at more that double the price) that we looked at to compare the boats. I checked every lead that I could find and was able to locate the previous 2 owners (both had no real info on it's origin) but could not locate the 3rd. I called several State of Florida departments, the US Coast Guard documentation center, the Canadian Coast Guard, and had the broker call Dave Perry at Robinhood Yachts (previously of Cape Dory Yachts)...all to no avail. After 2 weeks of diligent research, I couldn't find anyone who had heard of Adriatic Yachts, Ltd. I wondered if the "Ltd" meant that they only produced one boat.
The price of the vessel was very right, but it needed a lot of work and money invested. The engine beds were very badly rusted and one mount had competely deteriorated. The bifold doors to the v-berth would not close properly and I suspected hull deformation as the cause (but never verified as no survey was done). The running rigging was shot and the standing rigging was suspect enough to warrant replacement, there was no canvas and the sails were crusty. Otherwise it appeared to be a sound vessel. The broker told me that the couple that owned it, used it as a winter "condo" and hadn't taken it out of the slip for years.
Perplexed yet enamoured, taking into account the necessary repairs, I made a very low offer that was refused...then 3 weeks later the broker called and said the owner would accept...alas, i was already making a deal on the Cape Dory 30c that I now own.
As I recall, the HIN didn't conform to the standard because the federal requirements for the now current standard were not mandated until after 1978. The boat was Florida state registered and could not be US documented since it was built outside of the US. It did not have the carving in the companioway as your pictures show...it had a designer plate very much like the Cape Dory plate.
Hope this helps with your mystery.
Well starting in 84 the HID was supposed to be inscribed someplace inside the hull as well, since I suspect your boat was built sometime from 82 to 85, there is a chance there is another HID somewhere, inscribed the same way the transom HID is. But I have no idea what its location is, I have an 84 CD36 and I am not sure where it is on mine either, though I would suspect it is visible from inside one of the cockpit lockers or lazarette.jsbkc wrote:Russell,
The number at the stern - upper starboard side, the number routed in the wood over the companion way and the number on the brass builders plate on the mid-ship hanging locker all match.
Would there be anyother place that a number would be inscribed?
If I was you, I would contact Robinhood Marine reguarding this boat, many of the old Cape Dory empoloyees work there. If this Adiatic Alberg 37 did exist and is basicly identical to a CD36, they would know about it, but I seriously suspect this is not the case, but they may be able to give you some other hints on how to identify this boat of yours. Such as the location of the interior HID number. I really think someone has gone to great lengths to hide the history of this boat of yours and I would be concerned if I was you, perhaps a theft in the history of your boat. Did you buy through a broker? Did you receive any documentation or sales history with the boat?
From one of your pictures it appears likely you have the origonal electrical panel, but the picture is too far away to see details. If it is origonal, underneith the battery selector switch near the bottom it would normally say "Cape Dory Yachts", does yours have this? Or does it appear in any way to have been altered or tampered with at some point (scratched off, painted over, etc...).
Russell
s/v (yet to be named) Tayana 42CC
s/v Lady Pauline Cape Dory 36 #117 (for sale)
s/v (yet to be named) Tayana 42CC
s/v Lady Pauline Cape Dory 36 #117 (for sale)
Glen - thanks for the response - this is the boat you looked at in 1999 - with some changes since. I was hoping there were more of them. I've identified one of the previous owners (Hadley) but not the others. If you still have that information, I would appreciate you forwarding off line. You mentioned a designer plate very much like the Cape Dory plate - where was this located?
Russell - I did not notice any reference or apparent removal of a 'Cape Dory' plate below the battery selector. Good suggestion on contacting Robinhood - I'll go that route.
Russell - I did not notice any reference or apparent removal of a 'Cape Dory' plate below the battery selector. Good suggestion on contacting Robinhood - I'll go that route.